Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

Second Pfizer jab complete!

xpost - I didn't see that particular part, was just addressing the recent "redneck" talk. Yes, that is not cool either, but maybe call out the person who posted instead of expecting everyone else to do it?

Congrats Alfred!

Specifically by Anna, Illinois,

I grew up near here until I moved away at age 14. All I will say is, I've never been back.

WHO WANTS TO PARTY ON APRIL 12

Sorry, gotta wait until May 12th.

All I will say is, I've never been back.

So am I way off base? The "-stan" suffix was not intended as a slight on the people, just as in "a place abounding in." Calling the people down there "rednecks," that part I'll own, with the acknowledgment that of course they're not all bad people down there (very fine people on both sides, etc.) and that there are plenty of people there for family or through circumstances. I'm just going by all the warnings I've either read or been given by people actually from the area. But I honestly look forward to be proven wrong!

I have been guilty of redneck shaming during my adult life and the recent pushback on ILX has made me reconsider it.

I did plenty of redneck shaming when I was in the middle of it growing up, definitely. It's been easier to see as I've gotten older, though, how unfair it is to paint an entire region or area, because I do know some people that stick in those areas, fighting the good fight to keep progressive politics alive.

Taking an aggressive pride in one's ignorance is an understandable reaction to being shamed for one's ignorance, and it's a reaction that's in no way confined to just 'rednecks', but it is never a helpful reaction and it usually ends up stunting otherwise functional adult humans.

That's all true. So should someone not be shamed for being a vaccine denier, a Q supporter, carrying an assault weapon, flying a confederate flag, and so on? Obviously society as a whole is struggling with how to deal with ignorance/misinformation and its effects, particularly when it mingles with already malignant ideologies.

I've experienced a deep shift in how I think about parts of the American south (including Tennessee where half my family comes from), especially in the context of "maker and taker," ie blue and red, states and who benefits "disproportionately" from federal support. West Virginia isn't "taking" federal funds when they come in near the top of funds received per capita. They are suffering under GENERATIONS of ruthless resource extraction where all their natural wealth flowed to centers of capital and was consolidated in the hands of industry & energy barons, providing the fossil fuel that powered this country's development.

Starting with that kind of reasoning has profoundly recast rural poverty for me.

Beginning Tuesday, all New Yorkers 30 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine.

-- Beginning April 6, universal eligibility goes into effect, and all New Yorkers 16 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine...

lol "30 years and older" these people have too much time on their hands, just open it up.

The "-stan" suffix was not intended as a slight on the people, just as in "a place abounding in."

Josh, I believe you're sincere here. But while you are correct about the etymology, I rarely see someone come up with a new -stan that has a positive meaning/intention. I see it primarily used to designate a contemptible place filled with ideologically homogeneous, brainwashed and/or barbaric people (e.g., "Wokeistan" is pretty popular on the right). IMO, the reason for this is pretty clearly a few centuries of Orientalism, more recent anti-Muslim hatred, bigoted jokes about interchangeable countries in central Asia, and frequently ignored Western imperialist campaigns in that region. Again, I do believe that you didn't intend to invoke all that, but that is why I objected to the usage.

rob otm though I also believe Westerners do this all the time without bad intentions.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/LondonistanUK.jpg

The intentions are never less than bad in the UK, can't speak for the US.

Though LOL at How Britain Is Creating A Terror State Within Melanie Phillips. She is terrible and a state.

i feel like in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Americans totes did it in a malign way, and sometimes still, but a lot of it just seems like an unthinking attempt to say something "colorfully." See also sprinkling speech with "Allahu akbar" or "insha'Allah," which always REALLY WEIRDS ME OUT when it's white non-Muslims and not, like, my mom.

So should someone not be shamed for being a vaccine denier, a Q supporter, carrying an assault weapon, flying a confederate flag, and so on?

Individually, yes, these people should absolutely be shamed. What I'm arguing is that the areas where these people live should not be completely dismissed and shamed, as a whole, because of those people.

See also sprinkling speech with "Allahu akbar" or "insha'Allah," which always REALLY WEIRDS ME OUT when it's white non-Muslims and not, like, my mom.

People do this?

not a lot, but yes, i swear it sometimes happens!

Jesus... sorry, wow.

ime it is usually middle-aged white dudes of indeterminate center-liberal politics who are trying to be jaunty in speech.

i wish i understood why they do it.

lol "Londonistan" is such a dumb neologism, too. what a maroon.

"insha'Allah" is kind of an internet thing too (also biden said it).

i don't say it, but it's not easily translatable and i guess it's a useful phrase?

I have assumed such uses are people trying to apostrophically tweak right-wingers freaking out about sharia law xps

"god willing" is the translation.

it was already an expression in the US...

not sure what's untranslatable about a phrase that means "God willing" xp

oops lol

tbh I have thought about objecting to people saying "namaste" in a jokey way but have never done it

I work with lots of Muslims and I'm pretty sure I've ever heard a Muslim say it someone who isn't also a Muslim.

i would never say it to a non-Muslim, but i also am not exactly offended by it; it just makes me feel weird.

I'm from Southern Illinois, and it isn't where I would raise a family or spend my gay life, but there is some real fucking beauty there, and the people who are fighting the good fight down there have a *much* clearer view of what is happening and has happened to this country, and how it might one day improve, than ppl who have spent all of their adult lives moving from one gentrifying big city neighborhood to another.

Also, the corruption and disenfranchisement in those areas, both historically and currently, is fkn intense. Acting as though a vast majority of their residents are happy that they send who they send to govern them is a pretty iffy prospect. The Villages towns in the greater St. Louis metro are far worthier places of blanket distain than The Corn and Coal Counties, imo.

it's like how does everyone get to hate us but also steal our shit? that's a neat trick. see all appropriation ever, i guess.

Huh, yeah, I use "-istan" all the time. Like, Golfcoursistan, Fastfoodistan, Trumpistan, Disneystan, Officeparkistan. Definitely with some snotty disdain intended, but always directed toward the seemingly homogenous/ubiquitous subject, not the "-istan" suffix, which I figured was as harmless as sticking "-land" on something. Now, in the case of that "Londonistan" title, oof, that's horrible, because in that case the implication is that London is becoming another "-istan," which is, in the book's (I assume) view, a bad thing (ie a Muslim/terrorist country), a totally different and totally offensive use of that.

Starting with that kind of reasoning has profoundly recast rural poverty for me.

See, this I totally understand, but at the same time, when I see a Confederate flag (for example), I know its history and how the people flying it might have ended up believing the things they might, but my first reactions are always fear, revulsion and anger (maybe in that order), with sympathy somewhere far, far down the line, even if intellectually I get it.

Parts of southern Illinois look absolutely gorgeous, which is why we're going there. Geographically speaking, it's surreal that parts of Illinois are considerably south of St. Louis, well below Louisville and just a quick jaunt over to Nashville.

Beginning Tuesday, all New Yorkers 30 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine.

-- Beginning April 6, universal eligibility goes into effect, and all New Yorkers 16 years of age and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine...

It would be fucking nice if NY had this anywhere on their fucking eligibility website.

"god willing" is the translation.

― horseshoe, Monday, March 29, 2021 1:26 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

that's the literal translation but biden didn't mean "god willing" when he asked trump when he was going to release his tax returns.

"untranslatable" is a bit strong, but there were multiparagraph articles at the time explaining that what it means, which suggests "lol it means 'god willing'" doesn't quite capture it.

I mean, his usage was very acute as that is the non-literal way Muslims use it with each other when they’re clowning each other. He could have accomplished it with an eyeroll and a “sure, you’ll release ‘em,” but yes, some young Muslim on his staff did a nice job clarifying that usage for him. I saw a lot of Muslims on my Twitter feed tickled by his usage fwiw. I...was weirded out by it.

I am going to leave having empathy and understanding for white people supporting white supremacy to white people

I think because in my lifetime Muslims have gone from a group no nonMuslims I knew cared about or knew anything about to a much-feared and hated group. And learning about Muslim culture became a thing because of the fear. With complex results.

I suspect some of the insha'Allah thing is liberal-ish agnostic-ish ppl trying to replace "God willing" with something that sounds less Christian or has more ironic distance or something, while still keeping the sentiment.

I wish they wouldn’t if that’s the reason...I mean, Allah means God, sooooo

i am not a muslim and i found his use ... a little weird too, especially given his foreign policy history. but i guess i can see the case for a using it more than "allahu akbar" just because it says something useful crisply.

i have never heard a white person use it to mean "god willing"

I know language is a living thing and probs 30 years from now everyone will say it and nonMuslims won’t know the origin, but if we’re still bombing the hell out of Muslim countries and surveilling American mosques, I’ll be a cranky old person.

I can't really imagine any white person in the UK saying it!