(action direction not Snyder's strong suit either tbh)― intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:20 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglinkby direct comparison it's leagues better imo
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:30 (three years ago) link
Yeah "incoherent" isn't right. Someone on the MCU thread (maybe?) posted a video breaking down how unreal the physics of the CGI fight between Black Panther and Killmonger were and how that undercuts the drama of it, and I thought that was otm
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:33 (three years ago) link
don't think the fight scenes in the MCU movies are at all incoherent, not in a world that also contains a successful Transformers franchise.the thing is that we live in a world that also contains successful films by Corey Yuen and Sammo Hung and Stephen Chow and Jackie Chan and Prachya Pinkaew and Gareth Evans and Park Chan-wook and Chad Stahelski and George Miller and Brian Trenchard-Smith
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:36 (three years ago) link
“Bad” physics is one of the things that contributes to making these things incoherent to me
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:39 (three years ago) link
I can only speak for myself, but I don't ever expect tentpole blockbuster summer popcorn flicks to have the same level of fight choreography as niche films for which said fight choreography is the main draw.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:43 (three years ago) link
'But,' said Devil's Advocate, 'what is the main draw of a tentpole blockbuster summer popcorn superhero flick if not the fight choreography? Check, and also mate.'
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:46 (three years ago) link
(not u Peyton bb)
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:46 (three years ago) link
is that an example of your tongue-in-cheek preemptive defensiveness, OL?
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
Yes, sorry, #tongueincheek
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
is “fight choreography” even a thing that exists in the Transformers movies?
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
Gotta make myself a Post-It. 'Note to self...incluuuuude haaaashtaaag.'
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:49 (three years ago) link
it only takes up like 1/5 of the movie, no point making it look distinctive or memorable
― intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:49 (three years ago) link
sic, I'd definitely raise an eyebrow if someone told me they choreographed a mosh pit
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:49 (three years ago) link
When I think superhero fight scenes I have an entirely different set of expectations as to what a fight scene will look like than I would approaching a Hong Kong action flick.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:50 (three years ago) link
Lookit, if you're approaching these things as anything other than really nicely-polished b-movies, you might be doing it wrong, is the thing.
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:51 (three years ago) link
otm
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:52 (three years ago) link
Ok but this started because you got mad I said they follow a successful formula
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:54 (three years ago) link
Wait, are they summer tentpole blockbusters, or are they b-movies?(The idea that Sammo and Jackie and Chow and the creator of Happy Feet are making “niche films” and not blockbusters doesn’t really play either)
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:54 (three years ago) link
They are not literally b-movies, no, I don't think anyone would argue that. That they embody the spirit of b-movies is one of the reasons I appreciate them so.
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 16:58 (three years ago) link
They're way too sexless to be b-movies.
― intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:00 (three years ago) link
My bad for taking sic's disingenuous troll bait, sorry guys.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:02 (three years ago) link
oh god this is getting into the territory of a truly terrible essay I bailed on that complained that the MCU movies didn't have messy boning in them
it started by making a "do you SEE" point about Starship Troopers that showed the author fundamentally misunderstood the point of Starship Troopers
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:02 (three years ago) link
xxpost There are plenty of sexless b-movies, come on now. '50s sci-fi movies generally contained no more than a completely flaccid penis here and there, for instance.
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:03 (three years ago) link
like, there are a multitude of reasons why I enjoy MCU movies and none of them are "I want proof that all of these beautiful people penetrate each other constantly"
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:04 (three years ago) link
When I think superhero fight scenes I have an entirely different set of expectations as to what a fight scene will look like than I would approaching a Hong Kong action flick.Why do you have exactly the same expectations for a superhero fight scene as for a Michael Bay animated robot scene, then?(and do you have the same expectations for a Hong Kong fight scene as for a Hong Kong helicopter chase, or a Thai fight scene, or a Hong Kong dance scene, or a Welsh fight scene, or a Korean escape scene, or an American horse scene, or an Australian car chase, or an Australian baby pig and dozens of animals swarming a hotel, or an Australian bicycle chase, which I also carefully cited so that it wasn’t just comparing one style to another?)
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:04 (three years ago) link
sic, it's time to reboot
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:05 (three years ago) link
My bad for taking sic's disingenuous troll bait, sorry guys.oh hey get fucked
― armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:06 (three years ago) link
was it this? (can't read at work because of the URL lol)
https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/
― intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:08 (three years ago) link
lol yes it was
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:09 (three years ago) link
Yeah I'm not taking any further bait from you sic, I'll spend my time more productively bashing my head against the nearest wall.
You said that Marvel movie fight scenes are bad because they don't match up to Hong Kong action movies, a genre specifically known for very excellent fight choreography. I agreed with this premise, but noted that I don't think the two genres are really comparable, yet you keep moving the goalposts by insisting they are the same by bringing.... fucking Happy Feet into it somehow? You have no consistent argument other than to prove, yet again, your superior film knowledge and better tastes than us other mere mortals.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:09 (three years ago) link
xpI initially read that post as you were writing an essay and bailed on it lol
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:10 (three years ago) link
hahahaha oh no
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:11 (three years ago) link
admit i had the same reading of that line. was looking forward to DJP's horny take on the MCU
― Nhex, Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:12 (three years ago) link
But Is He Mighty Where It Counts
― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:13 (three years ago) link
Dear Mr. Feige,Surely Iron Man's suit would come equipped with...eh never mind
― rob, Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:14 (three years ago) link
lol
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:15 (three years ago) link
George Miller was listed along with the Hong Kong directors from the start tbf, it’s a consistent argument if you can read
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:16 (three years ago) link
I mean, thanks for the condescending insult wins, but I am well aware of George Miller's oeuvre. I guess I just completely blanked on the stunningly choreographed fight scenes from Happy Feet.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:31 (three years ago) link
fight choreo =/= action direction
― intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:39 (three years ago) link
(though the former could be construed as a subset of the latter)
“Creator of happy feet” a specific counter to the argument that these are niche filmmakers & separate to the consistent argument that directors across the world make big films w good action sequences. Even if you disagree because you think you shouldn’t be able to compare good things with bad things, it is not a trolly argument & didn’t really warrant an outburst?
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:44 (three years ago) link
obv wins was talking about the legit stunning action sequences from babe 2
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:47 (three years ago) link
or sic
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:48 (three years ago) link
too much crosstalk
Yeah I actually haven’t seen babe 2 (I know I know) but guessed that was the animals storming the hotel thing
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:48 (three years ago) link
For one, sic is notable for bad faith arguments in these threads, so I'll admit to being quick to lose my patience. But I still think that was a little disingenuous. Pointing out that a successful director of action sequences also directed a blockbuster in an entirely unrelated genre, without any action scenes at all, does not at all contradict my point that action sequences in modern superhero movies are not, and should not be considered, on equal footing with films that are specifically designed as showcases for intricate fight scenes.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 17:58 (three years ago) link
this is not relevant to the current discussion but i haven't even gotten into how i think this movie is a beautiful tribute to his daughter, just through the telling of cyborg's story and, once again, the flash sequence at the end
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 25 March 2021 18:15 (three years ago) link
i am hopeful that black widow will be a nice opportunity for some solid fight choreo/action direction that isn't disposable.it would be fun if they would ditch all the continuity bullshit for at least one film and just, i dunno, remake The Raid but put scarjo in the lead.
― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 March 2021 18:19 (three years ago) link
I'm hoping that by jumping back in time to be set after Civil War there won't be much emphasis on larger continuity at all, which would definitely suit it better.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 25 March 2021 18:24 (three years ago) link
I'll be the first (or, I dunno, like the eight millionth) to say that I wish Marvel would slough off the relatively homogeneous house style and let distinctive filmmakers get personal and/or properly weird with the material. It doesn't seem like it would affect the narrative throughline much.
― You Can't Have the Woogie Without a Little Boogie (Old Lunch), Thursday, 25 March 2021 18:25 (three years ago) link