Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

expense of grocery delivery has something to do with it.

plus it's just hard to stay cooped up inside for an entire year

Moodles I don't profess to know but I've always understood the risk to be greater to the actual employees of the grocery store, since they're working an 8-10 hour shift and even masked, exposed to possible airborne germs. definitely employees caught COVID, though probably more before mask mandates.

the risk is much lower if you pop in to shop for say, 5 minutes.

jfc, NY just lowered its eligibility threshold from 65+ to 60+. Big fucking deal. C'mon Cuomo use your big hands for something useful like signing an executive order opening this shit up. He's going to fucking stretch this out forever as a big power play. At this rate I'm getting vaccinated in fucking August.

I know for a fact that tons of people are lying to get the vaccine and it pisses me off, but with this shit I just think I'm the big sucker for waiting.

Expense and also selection! I'm not going to pay out the ass for a bunch of wilted, shitty vegetables, when I know that if I go to the same store, I can get better stuff.

My local grocery is a Trader Joe's so I'm already used to having to go to the farmer's market if I want non-shitty vegetables...

i go to the grocery store several times a week bc i can only carry so much myself without a car :D

i could get them delivered i guess but slots were so hard to get at the start of the pandemic in nyc that i just haven't even bothered trying again

and i'm covid-free baby

it is pretty insulting that they reliably pick the stuff that goes off, like, tomorrow. two packs of bacon that go off tomorrow. thanks fuckheads

Yeah, at the start I couldn't ever even get a grocery delivery slot, so I never bothered. Now, in all the months of going to store would I have gotten sick, had I not most likely already had covid last March? I'll never know. I do know that no one else in my household has had it.

Everything comes with risk but some people want to reduce the risk to absolute zero which just isn't possible without taking extreme measures

Which is what I more or less was getting at on another thread re: the (lack of) flu this year. Now we know that the flu can be more or less put in check. That saves tens of thousands of lives, hundreds of thousands of trips to the hospital, millions of cases (which translates to lost school, lost work etc.). But we now also know what it takes to get there, and I doubt people would prefer what we've done for the past year to a certain degree of acceptance of risk and potential consequences.

I go to the store regularly and my wife is a retail cashier, neither of us have contracted COVID, and as far as I know, none of her co-workers have contracted it from customers. Absolutely could be dumb luck though.

UK grocery store delivery is a totally different world from US grocery store delivery, at least in London and other big cities. I haven't been in a grocery store for a year, we already did a lot of our groceries online, and it was pretty easy to fully switch. We go to the farmers' market every week for fresh, and Toby occasionally runs into the little local shop for something like avocados at 7am on Sunday morning when he's literally the only person in the store.

I'm not judging people who feel comfortable grocery shopping, but it's not something I need to do, or really miss, so it's been a pretty easy transition.

I look forward to going to the store. As a single guy, I need to get out of the house and see people.

to Josh's point, I will continue wearing masks in certain situations for a long time, possibly forever (going to the market or the airport; any place where masses gather). I don't mind them.

Also: I've grown so accustomed to outdoor dining that even in July and August I don't see myself heading indoors unless it's sweltering.

Yeah I mean I think the real point here is that everybody is different both in their level of risk tolerance and which things they particularly mind forgoing, what matters is that people reduce indoor time with others in whatever way is agreeable to them, which for some people is gonna mean going to the store half as much and for others is gonna mean not going to the store at all and for some people is gonna mean going to the store as usual and forgoing something else that doesn't affect their life as much as the store, from each according to their abilities usw., I don't think there is much merit in telling other people they're insane unless they are literally not forgoing ANYTHING, which I think is just about as rare as being an absolute shut-in.

My nearest supermarkets are five and 10 minutes away so I’d rather go in and do my own shopping. There’s also a fab veg stall next to Holborn station and an Asian one next to the Bloomsbury post office, so I’ve been lucky that way.

yeah supermarkets really do take the piss in constantly fobbing off short-date stuff (that you'd never put into your physical trolley) onto home delivery customers.

UK grocery store delivery is a totally different world from US grocery store delivery, at least in London and other big cities.

this is extremely true. i hadn't shopped in a supermarket regularly beyond like a four pack and frozen pizza on the way home for years when i left the UK in 2010. going to the supermarket in germany and then the US was weird to me.

there might be paranoia and mental health issues involved in whatever some people are doing with getting stuff delivered, but i don't think avoiding supermarkets and post offices is ipso facto crazy fwiw.

Population of Mississippi is a fraction of MA. Population of Alaska is a fraction of MI. Populations of Ohio and IL are about twice that of MA. Populations of IL and OH a fraction of CA and TX. I've got to assume vaccinating a small state (like West VA) is easier than vaccinating a bigger state, which is why I picked OH and IL, which are about the same population.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, March 17, 2021 11:32 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

WV and alaska are kind of special cases.

WV is small but it's a very low density population, so it would normally be kind of tough there. they fixed that by involving local pharmacies https://newrepublic.com/article/161375/west-virginia-covid-vaccine-new-york-california.

alaska is another special case. they tribal govt IIUC that was rightly prioritized for supply and allowed to do its own thing for distribution, and they did the right thing, and that helped a lot. and then the non-tribal population lives in like 3 towns, so while it's a big state, the population is geographically very concentrated and relatively easy to reach.

OH and IL should be comparable to eah other, and be rolling out to new groups at roughly the same rate though, you're right. and they're at almost exactly the same point in terms of doses delivered per 100 people (35ish) according to bloomberg. so my guess is that we're starting to get into more reluctant populations, and there might be more of those in OH (and mississipi?) than in ohio, so places like that are figuring "let's just open up"? although i do get the impression that illinois is doing things in an extremely pedantic and complicated way every chance they get.

jfc, NY just lowered its eligibility threshold from 65+ to 60+. Big fucking deal. C'mon Cuomo use your big hands for something useful like signing an executive order opening this shit up. He's going to fucking stretch this out forever as a big power play. At this rate I'm getting vaccinated in fucking August.

Yeah, this is where I am right now, not NY but Illinois is moving glacially slow. As of today, afaik, Illinois still lists May 31 as the target for opening Phase 2, for everyone else 16 and over. Obviously this does not meet Biden's timetable, so I expect that to change, but even so they really need to step things up.

They opened up a mass vax site at the United Center to target zip codes that are harder hit and for neighborhoods that are underserved, to provide a more equitable approach - which is fantastic and I fully support it. However, there are a lot of anecdotal stories floating around that, since they are limiting it to specific zip codes, there are quite a few appointments going unused each day because the demand just isn't there in those vaccine hesitant communities. Again, I'm all for those groups and neighborhoods being first in line, but it sounds like Chicago might still be overcorrecting and letting appointments go unused rather than folks from other zip codes slipping in. Again, all anecdotal at this point, but I'm hoping we get some fuller reporting on it in time. The rise in daily vaccination rates in Chicago since the site opened are a little disappointing, given how much hoopla there was about this site starting up. But, then, it has only been a little over a week and hopefully they are still just working out some growing pains.

f. hazel, sorry for my hostility earlier. You're right that people are dealing with risk in different ways, and I shouldn't have been so aggro toward you.

I just worry about my friend and his mental and physical health. He's gained a ton of weight, and seems unhealthily fixated on things that he cannot control.

I just also truly don't personally understand where he's coming from, since my partner works in an emergency room, I'm immunocompromised, and we've been going grocery shopping ~2/week in-store throughout the entire pandemic. And neither of us have gotten COVID.

Like others, that could be dumb luck, but we've also been *extremely* careful in many regards. Just not in terms of food shopping.

no apology necessary! we're all struggling with this and I should have been more careful about my phrasing too.

I've been doing like 85% pickup and delivery of groceries for the last year. I miss going to the stores i liked to go to and - I still visit some of these but no where near as frequently or for as long as I did before. I absolutely do not miss spending two hours every weekend driving around to multiple places and wandering in huge chain grocery stores and have come to realized that I will happily spend money to have that time to use for literally anything else.

We get around 80% of our groceries delivered, which I would say is definitely more expensive - but I'm not so sure that it actually is. We tip the people really, really well for them being the ones to take on our risk for us, but I would imagine it all ends up in a wash since we are able to stick exclusively to our list and don't end up with tons of impulse purchases that shopping in person usually entails.

I just also truly don't personally understand where he's coming from, since my partner works in an emergency room, I'm immunocompromised, and we've been going grocery shopping ~2/week in-store throughout the entire pandemic. And neither of us have gotten COVID.

Same, more or less. I also know some people who have maintained a level of fear that is in my opinion unwarranted, even if it's understandable how they got to this place. Once I started going to stores it quickly became not a big deal. As long as you live in a place where people are wearing masks, I think it's (mentally) healthy to go into the world occasionally.

I think it's (mentally) healthy to go into the world occasionally.

I think there is a lot of slippage in this thread where the choice is presented as "go the store just as much as you always do" vs "never go into the world" when 95% of all people fall in the category of "going into the world occasionally or more than occasionally but also substantially less than under normal conditions"

otoh Wisconsin seems to be doing well, Gov. Evers just announced they're starting phase 1c on Monday where anyone overweight is eligible. which is like 75% of the state. my mom volunteers at a clinic and she says they're kind of encouraging people to just say they're an essential worker b/c they have a lot of appointments available and people aren't taking them right now. they think they've gotten everyone who fits into phase 1b already. granted idk if this is statewide or just in my little neck o' the woods

In particular, the idea that you're not adding to the public risk burden by going masked to the store makes no sense. You are! Not to zero, not to When I go, I am too! It's cool, there's very little we do in life that doesn't somehow impose burden on other people, you become some kind of weird ascetic if you try to do no harm and you'd fail anyway! But it's good to be aware of the burden one is choosing to impose and to be explicit about the tradeoffs you're choosing to make.

I think the degree of risk is so small as to negligible in that scenario

(frogbs, that's great to hear - can't remember where you're at, but are you in the city or more small town?)

We have a Buffalo Wild Wings but no Dave & Busters.

lol, got it

I think the degree of risk is so small as to negligible in that scenario

I cannot agree. I do it, but I don't think the risk is negligible. Why would it be? Wearing a mask cuts the risk of transmission by, what? This study in the Lancet

https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent

estimates about a 65% cut in risk. From a public health perspective that is HUGE. It's why we made all these rules, which were the right ones to make! But it's nothing like getting your risk cut down to near zero. In my circles, people wear masks when they go indoors always. Some of them still got COVID! If they didn't wear masks, more of them would! That's why masks are good!

But if everyone is wearing a mask, how much does that cut down transmission? Is that 65% assuming exposure to droplets?

I'm sorry about your friends, I haven't heard of anyone getting COVID from indoor scenarios where everyone was wearing masks and distancing. My wife was working closely with COVID-positive patients for months, both wearing masks, and did not get it.

It's pretty wacky. I know lots of stories of people not getting it from or giving it to their family, for example. Or having no idea how they got it, for that matter. I think I told the story of our friend who drove her daughter home from school in Michigan. 4 1/2 hours in the car, both masked, windows cracked, but still a cramped space for hours. Her daughter tested positive the next day, she didn't. And over the course of the next two weeks at home no one else in their family ever tested positive, either.

but there's always the things people choose to tell us and what they don't.

For sure. I also knows lots of people who fall into the category of "we're not going anywhere or doing anywhere, except this trip here and this visit there and this other thing and ... "

(doing anything, not doing anywhere, though that would be pretty reckless, too)

Currently getting vaccine envy esp bc our state is still not receiving enough doses to fulfill weekly requests and our current projection still has us inching through phase 1B tiers 2, 3, and 4 through the end of April, which almost takes us to when frack em in the leg Joe says everyone can get vaccinated, so I just don’t know what’s meant to happen between now and then, if phases 2-4 are going to go out the window, or what

That’d be fine and all but just make the call imo.

I'm somewhat surprised, given everything we've heard in recent weeks, that there are still states claiming a supply problem. That just seems, unlikely? Are there still that many wrinkles in how the feds are getting doses to the states? Seems like that would have ramped up by now. Or, hell, maybe the states are blowing smoke to cover up the fact that they still haven't figured out the distribution issues on their end, so it's easier to just say "sorry, we don't have enough".

Well, huh, I wander away from ilx for a few minutes and see that Illinois just now announced they'll be opening up for everyone 16 and over on April 12th.

Huge news, let's just hope they've got some new distribution plans to go along with it, or its going to turn Hunger Games really fast around here.

State DoH posted this about this week’s shipments

Wondering how much #COVID19 vaccine we get in Washington? Demand is still higher than supply. We are not getting any Johnson & Johnson #COVIDvaccine next week. Keep trying for your appt & help seniors in your life get theirs! More of us get vaccinated every day. pic.twitter.com/7JFEIgASxX

— WA Dept. of Health (@WADeptHealth) March 17, 2021

"I'm somewhat surprised, given everything we've heard in recent weeks, that there are still states claiming a supply problem. That just seems, unlikely?"

but you have been talking about supply/distribution problems and difficulty with access to the vaccine in your city for several weeks now

Just made an appointment for a first shot Saturday afternoon...

but you have been talking about supply/distribution problems and difficulty with access to the vaccine in your city for several weeks now

Right, but I’ve been repeatedly assured in this very thread that supply is not the issue. So I was expressing surprise to see two examples from just today that, turns out, the supply side is also still a challenge. That’s all.

I knew it was mistake to post itt again, though I was really trying to avoid any doomposting. Instead just people waiting to jump on me for any perceived inconsistency. I really don’t understand why certain posters get singled out and targeted more than others.

This thread is, almost entirely by design, a thread for people to essentially vent their spleens with fears, worries, obsessions and anxieties about COVID. For some reason I’m the only one that gets continually called out for it. It’s obnoxious as fuck.

sorry. your comment was just confusing to me. I have been worried about access to the vaccine too, not just the supply but the ethics of the distribution. I want all of my family to be protected, but California is still in the 65+ tier. I hope they move out of that in the next couple of weeks

I keep telling myself that the more vaccines go into arms the more it protects everyone... it sucks to be stuck at home, but as the percentage vaccinated of your country's population goes steadily up, our risk goes steadily down.

I feel like the number of infections will start decreasing more (it's really just held steady/plateaued the last few weeks) when the people doing most of the spreading (younger people) get vaccinated.

death rate/hospitalization for elder people is plummeting to all-time lows, though, which is great