Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

boy did that go awry the one time they accidentally brought a bull

i like how that sounds like something ODB might have done too.

Emotional support ox

well it's also cos originally the WHO/CDC seemed to think that was the main way it spread, and that it wasn't airborne.

I don't think is right, is it? They said it mainly spreads through someone catching droplets from an infected coughing or sneezing in close proximity. Surface transmission. was always thought to be a more minor thing. What's changed is growing evidence of transmission by aerosols (the smaller-sized particles) - that's what makes it airborne. Transmission by larger droplets through coughing and sneezing is not classed as airborne. Very happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

originally they didn't know that it spread from human to human at all, but that had somewhat to do with the Chinese government's secrecy about it:

https://www.voanews.com/science-health/who-does-not-rule-out-human-human-spread-new-coronavirus

we knew it was human-to-human by March though

yeah by that point they just didn't know about the 'airborne' part.

I feel like the whole "airbone vs droplet" thing is something people get VERY HET UP about and... I don't really get why? "do you need to wash your groceries" is an important question we didn't know the answer to early and it slowly got settled and that's good. But once human-to-human transmission was established (pretty early, as sic says) then everybody basically knew "you get it from other people, you can get it from people who don't feel sick, the farther away you are from someone and the less time you spend in a room with them the less likely you are to get it," which is pretty much what you'd say with both droplet and airborne. If airborne meant "don't stand somewhere anyone else has been standing in the last hour," OK, that would be really different advice, but that's not the advice anyone's giving, right?

I guess to some extent a more "it's airborne" POV leads you to a heavier weighting on "outside is safer than inside" but again, it seems to me that has in fact been conventional wisdom for a really long time?

yes, hence the lower-than-expected rates of transmissions amongst the unhoused population

i think the thing about it being airborne is that it kind of subverted the whole "6 foot" thing. the idea was that if someone sneezed, exhaled, etc greater than 6 feet away from you, you wouldn't likely come in contact with it.

but with it being airborne, that changed dynamics a bit. there was a common story told about several groups that ate simultaneously in the same poorly ventilated restaurant, and how one guest many, many tables away infected people at the other, because the air conditioning carried the contaminated air over there. and they were far further than 6 feet apart.

i know in early March, although I wasn't exactly doing it, I didn't think being indoors with people wasn't as big of a deal if you were greater than 6 feet apart and weren't lingering in an area where someone else was. and as soon as I heard it was airborne and read the stories like the restaurant one above, I kind of made it my mission to not be indoors in public places *at all* and got more anxious about it.

this was an early study that came out before it was definitively established that it was airborne that warned about 6 feet "not being enough": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7215485/

ha, yeah, I told a friend last week that we were safest during that period in late March to early May when most of the country was in lockdown. We could've seen each other because nothing was open!

the true test abut indoors vs outdoor transmission: BLM protests, after which we expected a massive surge.

abut = on

I just want to go on record as saying I didn't expect a massive surge from either the BLM protests or the (much smaller of course but less masked) anti-lockdown protests or the elections and I think I was right on all counts

i think the thing about it being airborne is that it kind of subverted the whole "6 foot" thing

I don't think it subverts it that much -- airborne or not, it's better to be farther away from people! 6 feet was always a "we have to make up a cutoff that seems a reasonable tradeoff," not "you're safe 73 inches away but in danger if that drops to 71"

I guess to some extent a more "it's airborne" POV leads you to a heavier weighting on "outside is safer than inside" but again, it seems to me that has in fact been conventional wisdom for a really long time?

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:48 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

the papers are still publishing of beaches and parks taken with long lenses to make them look extra crowded to scold people (and to make people extremely confused about what's risky and what's not), so i can see how people maybe aren't aware of the CW.

Tomorrow morning, our administration will release the schedule for all remaining groups in MA’s vaccine plan. Every resident will know when they are eligible for a vaccine.

Thank you for making MA a national leader in the vaccination effort!

— Charlie Baker (@MassGovernor) March 16, 2021

Xpost That part I get... it's not an exact science. but aerosolized small particles can travel a much further distance than droplets (way further than 6 feet) and stay in the air much longer

That case:. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

(ironically they don't think this case was from aerosolized droplets though!)

the papers are still publishing of beaches and parks taken with long lenses to make them look extra crowded to scold people (and to make people extremely confused about what's risky and what's not), so i can see how people maybe aren't aware of the CW.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, March 16, 2021

I know people about 10 years older than me -- a few of whom, granted, with pre-existing conditions -- who've had groceries delivered since March, haven't left their homes, and spend their time on social media engaged in this shaming without realizing this kind of isolation turns them into trolls who spend their time on social media engaged in shaming others.

Today I spent a few hours outside directing traffic at the drive-thru clinic. About an hour in a kid walks over to the corner near me, stands there, and stares. Just keeps staring. I direct traffic a bit, answer a few questions, then turn back, and there's the kid ... staring. I spend another 30 seconds or so directing some cars and the kid is still there. Suddenly I realize that he thinks I'm a crossing guard, he's been following the rules and I've just been ignoring him, like a big asshole.

He's still there, as far as I know.

Josh just wrote a Lydia Davis story.

lmao

Lol omg

I spent some time talking with a friend last night that is a similar situation to me, in that we don't work fully remote and we also aren't fully on site (he's been back at work twice a week since about November, my schedule is far less consistent but I'd say I've averaged probably 3-4 times a month, depending on the month), so we aren't, fairly, considered essential workers, but also not locked into fully remote. Anyway, it was helpful to hear from someone in a similar boat who shared some similar fears.

There were two things he put words to that made a lot of sense to me to help process and understand our increased anxiety lately, especially wrt to the uneven rollout so far. One was that it's a mental toll every time we have to mask up to head back into the uncertainty of being "out in the work world" and anxiety about who will be masked, who will be safe, what situations will be uncomfortable, etc etc. We'd all become kind of numb to the routine and dealing with it as we can, but seeing a lot of people expressing relief, and rightly so, to NOT feel that anxiety/fear makes it a little more acute to us right now.

The second thing my friend said was that watching people plan vacations, trips, family gatherings, etc. while we remain so uncertain of our "spot in line", for lack of a better phrase, one kind of loses that "hey, we're all in this together" feeling of, say, last summer. My friend's wife, in particular, was having a hard time because her parents, brother and sister-in-law have all gotten both jabs, or will have the second one soon, so they've already planned a family trip to a cabin in early May. But since her and my friend have no idea when they will get their vaccinations, they obviously aren't going to risk it and turned down the invitation. Now, I'd say it's kind of a dick move to plan a mini family reunion after a year now and not wait a few more months until everyone can be there, but I guess people are impatient. Anyway, point being, it's created a wholly new level of anxiety around navigating the have/have not divide for the next few months or so.

Anyway, whatever, I'm sure people have already saw my name below this post and dismissed this as doomposting, but I thought it was helpful to hear someone else in a similar situation put some clearer words to the anxieties I've been feeling. I really debated even posting, tbh, but I highly doubt we are the only two people dealing with these types of feelings and thought it might be worth sharing.

Are your friend and friend's wife high risk? If they've been careful, I'd be less worried about spending a few days in a cabin in the woods with vaccinated people.

They may end up changing their mind, but at the moment the concern was more the 9-hour drive they have to get to the cabin. Typically they hit a hotel half way there when making the drive, but aren't ready for that just yet and aren't excited about a straight shot long drive like that just yet.

lol just yet just yet

Last month before my own jab I realized I'd start to feel less nervous as everyone in my circles increased their vaccination numbers: they're less likely to infect me, I'm far less likely to infect them.

Has there been any confirmation of how easy it is to spread the virus even after you've gotten vaccinated? That is, can I be personally safe but still spread it to others? That's my modest concern.

I have a good friend in the same travel situation as Jon, btw. Her whole family has been vaccinated but she hasn't yet, and won't be double vaxxed until after a family reunion, which she is turning down.

have a feeling summer in NY is going to be uhhhhhhhh nutty, let's say, and i am extremely interested in getting my shot just so there's one less thing out there that's actively trying to kill me (new city drivers, garden variety maskless idiots, ppl doing anti-azn hate crimes, garden variety subway pushers, bootleg fireworks, cops etc)

They should vaccinate fireworks and just have it rain down on everyone, two birds, one (explosive) stone.

Has there been any confirmation of how easy it is to spread the virus even after you've gotten vaccinated?

This is a decent summary from a couple weeks ago:

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2021/03/04/vaccine-transmission

The Pfizer/Moderna vaccines appear to meaningfully reduce (but not eliminate totally) asymptomatic infections. No word yet on the J&J or other vaccines.

I know people about 10 years older than me -- a few of whom, granted, with pre-existing conditions -- who've had groceries delivered since March, haven't left their homes,

I would guess the number of people who haven't left their house in a year is incredibly small. But this could be geographic, I live in a small city of a quarter-million where people mostly live in houses, people go outside all the time, I don't think I know a soul who hasn't left their house. In New York I can imagine it's different.

i think a better definition than "hasn't left their house" is "still scared to leave their house" and I know a number of people in that boat. Hoping that changes soon.

BREAKING: General population in Massachusetts will become eligible for a #coronavirus vaccine April 19:

-March 22: Residents 60+ and remaining essential workers
-April 5: Residents 55+ and those with one comorbidity
-April 19: General public#WBZ

— Liam Martin (@LiamWBZ) March 17, 2021

think a better definition than "hasn't left their house" is "still scared to leave their house"

OK but those are totally different!

xpost I was trying to figure out what the f was going on in IL in this regard. Ohio, for example, is more or less on par with Illinois, in terms of total population, demographics, etc. And yet the gov of Ohio said they'd open it up to everyone 16+ by the end of March, iirc, but the governor of Illinois said maybe May 1 for "all adults." I know things are changing by the day, but why would the gov of Ohio think their state would be ready by the end of the month, but the gov of Illinois pick a date a month after that?

(A month isn't much, tbf, but it probably feels like more if you've been waiting to be vaccinated.)

Mississippi and Alaska are already vaccinating anyone who asks. I assume in Mississippi’s case part of the answer is low vaccine acceptance. Easy to offer it to everyone if few people are taking you up.

we're in the taxiing on the runaway phase at the end of a 12-hour flight... we have arrived but it's still going to be like half an hour before we get off the damn plane and it's far worse than when we were sitting in the dark halfway across the Atlantic.

er, runway

i just want it to open up to everybody because I'm tired of watching friends of mine get asked by assholes "oh how did YOU get the vaccine? you're not old and I presume you're not high risk even though I don't know your medical history", and all of the other "you don't deserve the vaccine" shaming bullshit.

well that and because i want everybody vaccinated

One time we had to disembark from the plane onto the actual runway in the middle of a crazy storm because the plane couldn't make it to the gate. So I'm expecting it to be a little like that, to extend the metaphor just a touch.

xpost

Population of Mississippi is a fraction of MA. Population of Alaska is a fraction of MI. Populations of Ohio and IL are about twice that of MA. Populations of IL and OH a fraction of CA and TX. I've got to assume vaccinating a small state (like West VA) is easier than vaccinating a bigger state, which is why I picked OH and IL, which are about the same population.