Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

and thematically, it fits

what happened to agatha by the way? wanda turned her back into agnes just in time for the illusion to go away, which seemed pretty pointless, because now she’s just agatha again presumably

I thought he just ‘unlocked’ the hidden memory data already within the white vision

as evidenced when Wanda's Vision said to Alabaster Vision "they tried to block your memories but you are too fly for them to stay hidden away forever" and then unlocked them

tbh I really like the idea of this broad, hammy sitcom-cliche-spouting stranger wandering through Westview while the shellshocked townspeople studiously avoid her

the vision vs. vision "ship of theseus" scene was one of my favorite of the series. got to the core of what i find interesting about the character.

xps re: Agatha - implication I thought was that Wanda's mojo was so strong at this point (and she milkshaked all of Agatha's juice) it was a perma-hex until Marvel decides it's time to Agatha back

xp loved the Ship of Theseus robot-logic-o-rama as well

and yeah, i pray we get a scene in the future of Agatha "okey-doke artichokey!"-ing the modern residents of Westview someday

yeah, the ship of theseus bit was enjoyable.

white vision (now with UNLOCKED MEMORIES tm) basically IS Vision now and we'll surely see him shortly but I think the implications of how much Vision is Wanda's creation could have benefited from more exploration.

SWORD rebuilt Vision's body using Wanda's energy and then Wanda's dream-vision "unlocked" (perhaps more accurately "transferred" / "implanted") the inherent hidden memories... so in a very real way, Vision is Wanda's lover AND creation, a gender-flipped Pygmalion and Galatea. That's a storyline I'd like to see more of!

i totally thought that wanda’s vision like, bluetoothed them over or something, but yeah i guess i missed it

wanda's vision didn't have many of the memories that white vision had. there is no "true" vision that has both pre-infinity war memories and memories of wanda's family life in the hex.

More stuff that will need explaining involves those pesky infinity stones. I thought Wanda and Vision were both given power by the mind stone, but the mind stone has been (ostensibly) destroyed, at least in this universe, so wouldn't that mean no more mind stone power? Similarly, Wanda's brother was (apparently) given speed powers by the mind stone as well, but at least in this world Agatha (no mind stone) could give Ralph the same powers. Also related, even though the mind stone has been destroyed or is otherwise totally MIA, Wanda in her created world could give her Vision the powers of the mind stone. If all these powers can be created independent of the mind stone, then what use was the mind stone to Vision, Wanda, Pietro, etc.? For that matter, Nu Vision definitely lacks the mind stone, and Dr. Strange now lacks the time stone, right? I guess with Loki in possession of the mind stone in some alternate time line/TV show that means the stones will still play some role, though after establishing them as the ultimate OP I hope they find a way to make them less of a focus.

If you infuse tequila with peppers and then throw the peppers away, does the tequila lose its pepper flavor?

If not, why would Wanda's powers have vanished after the Mind Stone was destroyed?

Does your chewing gum lose its flavor on the bedpost overnight?

I guess I always assumed the mind stone was less a seasoning and more a source. Maybe it was in Wanda's case, but Vision literally had it embedded in his head, it had to be there for a reason, right?

i totally fell asleep every time somebody said “mind stone” on this show

I took a shot of tequila.

lol @ Josh

reminds me of that sequence in The Wire where McNulty used the timestone on Stringer

or when Tony used the reality stone to rub out Big Pussey

Vision was Snot Boogie

I'm not sure where the idea that Red'n'Gold Vision is "the phantom vision made of wanda’s memories" comes from, though? The main tragedy, as I read it, is that Wanda wants to create a perfect world, but because she's recreated Vision in his entirety*, the whole shebang is only counting down until he figures out what's going on and rebels.

*albeit a version that can only exist inside the hex.

if r&g vizh isn't made by wanda's memories and impetus i'm not sure what he's made of? I think the implication is that r/g is a manifestation of vision prime's "soul" and that white vision is made from his body (and wanda's hex power to jumpstart it for reasons that are totally handwavy) and that r/g pushed the button in white vision's forehead that allowed him to ACCESS ALL MEMORIES BEEP BOOP
again: all absurd and can be read any of a dozen different ways - most notably how it happened in the comics, but also what we saw in the show, which includes wanda making r/g vizh from fairy dust and dreams

wanda says "you're the piece of the mind stone that lives inside me," which is how she was able to conjure a simulacrum of vision that had its own autonomous thoughts and feelings. i'd venture that white vision, with no mind stone, can access those memories but won't be able to process human emotion like mind stone vision could.

I thought I saw where they were going with "My mission is to destroy the true Vision"/"But you are also the true Vision", then he just flew off though

I feel like while they were saying goodbye to the kids, etc., red Vision might have wanted to mention the fact that he did a mind transfer to white Vision!

it's a game they ike to play

right but he didn't do a mind transfer, he just woke up the memories of the old vision. and there's no indication that white vision will be able to make sense of the full scope of those memories without the empathy and insight offered by the mind stone

yeah, i think they're gonna do a Data
"is this what it means... to FEEL"

Sure, but it still seems like Wanda would have liked to know about the “awakening” or whatever.
xp

"teach me about this thing you call....love"

i'm not sure what he's made of

About 6 billion dollars of vibranium iirc (I probably do not rc)

I'm not just being glib - Wanda did a magic and she made a The Vision. One of the takeaways of the show is a better understanding of her grief and trauma, but another is the terrifying level of power she has (if not necessarily to hand).

the bit with white vision was just advanced original star trek -- oh no, a logical paradox! i must explode/disappear! and the whole hex was just like various star treks tng/ds9/dsc in which some sad powerful person created a simulation to assuage their grief, albeit those powerful people weren't commandeering live people

this had much better acting and much better production values, and the way the premise was set up was grebt

but man, what a fizzle. wanda is sad for manipulating ppl, but not *really*, because True Love. vision is more or less alive. wanda beat agatha because the latter let her out of the cellar and the former made a rune. heyward, the head of an elite secret countereverything division, got foiled by the sassy chick in the ice cream truck, after which he just waited for the FBI to arrest him. rambeau is ridiculously hot but has no other actual purpose beyond preventing heyward from shooting wanda's hypothetical children, who can hypothetically take care of themselves

and tbh i'm more or less okay with that! it was beautifully shot and moving at times, and god knows science fiction is terrible at endings. but christ comics/mcu stans are insufferable

I’m fully down with pop philosophy 101 endings like the Ship of Theseus thing rather than just endless punching to resolve fights, but of course I like Star Trek and Fallout which are best when they go that way. Also why I liked the end of the Dr Strange movie.

How lucky is Disney/Marvel that they had everything shot before lockdown hit, and this is the series they launch their tv franchise with?

I was just reading an interview with the director. Apparently they finished filming something like two weeks right before lockdown, but of course had tons of time in post under lockdown, and it was there that a number of changes were made. Ten episodes down to nine, for example, and a bunch of stuff with Monica cut out. From a reddit thread based on the interview with Kevin Smith:

it was meant to be the first 3 episodes dropped at once.
"aerospace engineer" came from tweaked dialogue during a reshoot and they didn't realise it was going to blow up.
"Kick-ass" not an intended inside joke. It was improv.
Scripts for later episodes were still being reworked when they started filming
Original 10 eps planned, ended up compressed to 9.
Part of the final convo between Monica and Wanda was a late addition
Ralph Bohner was a reference to Growing Pains
Kevin Feige is incredibly focused on each project and would know a script better than the director, despite being involved in every project simultaneously.
The ads were not about Infinity Stones
Walnuts is Shakman's favourite Dick Van Dyke episode
Evan Peters was a meta-comment on recasting. Shakman's response to disgruntled fans is, Mutants and Multiverse is coming because they've been announced, so be patient
Shakman did plan to do a whole sequence in the finale where Monica, Ralph, Darcy and the kids try to steal the Darkhold from the basement and Senor Scratchy intercepts them and morphs into a demon.

Lol okay, given what they were considering I’m even more glad they did what they did

Monica deserved more time!
and i would've liked to see Demon Scratchy

good review: https://lifestyle.livemint.com/how-to-lounge/movies-tv/wandavision-season-review-marvel-makes-tv-magic-111615266040682.html

lol at Growing Pains callback.

also in the finale, Ralph Macchio was supposed to show up in a cameo and play guitar in a duel with Agatha

More Monica = yay!
Monica fighting a demon rabbit = ummmmm…

In the Marvel series WandaVision (Disney+), we see her in bed with the near-omnipotent android, Vision, watching Malcolm In The Middle.

It's on rather than in the bed, he sees her watching and sits down beside her - which sounds like nitpicking, but I really loved that it was at or before the start of their relationship, that this act of kindness was unbound and unbidden (particularly since the relationship in the films seemed a bit "we have to do this because comics")

(the quote is from Nhex's Mint Lounge link, which I liked otherwise)

to be clear, had they continued the unreal Looney Tunes-vibe of the sitcom realities rather than shifted back into standard MCU, then okay yeah bring on the demon bunny, just don't be surprised if I start yelling "YOU MAY CALL ME... TIM?" at the television

ya gotta dream bigger, DJP!

The last thing we needed in that final episode was another pair of powerful beings fighting one another.

Watched a handful of season 1 eps of my folks' new Netflix binge, "Kim's Convenience", this weekend. Good-natured Canadian comedy about a Korean family-run convenience store. Generational and cultural laughs. The actor playing the son is charismatic, and took me an episode to recognize that Simu Liu is the actor playing Shang-Chi. Nice to have a separate facet going into what I hope is a great MCU addition.

oh that's rad, i'm a big fan of Kim's Convenience and I didn't know that dude was gonna be shang-chi. prob explains why he's been "away on business" this season. dude was ripped before the marvel workout plan.

that review upthread nailed it imo

xposts

I've been enjoying Charles Pulliam-Moore's takes on the show over the course of the season and, as much as I very much enjoy said season, this perspective I freely accept:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/monica-rambeau-was-wandavisions-real-hero-and-the-show-1846433688

yep hard to argue with that

That was really good, thanks. And the article linked to a previous article which helped clear up my own confusion about what (little) I knew about Captain Marvel. Good comment at the bottom, too, with someone hypothesizing that covid might have messed up with the finale the most, which is why much of the last episode featured pairs of people facing off in isolation, due to restrictions.