Beware the Ides of March -- U.S. Politics March 2021

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well yeah the point of a stimulus is to stimulate the economy, though basically this round of checks is more "the previous administration abandoned you, this is to give you something so you can pay some bills" by this point.

it's dumb to reduce the pay thresholds and i am hoping Manchin gets eaten by wolves.

Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:29 (five years ago)

if the Democrats think being the party of austerity and “tough on Venezuela/ Iran/ whoever the natsec bugbear of the day is”, but with a rainbow flag slapped on the side going to finally give them those permanent majorities then they are in for some really dark days

but hey wgaf. not me. line go up!

Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:29 (five years ago)

Governing more like they prefer divided government to permanent majorities. After all, the country needs a strong Republican Party.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:36 (five years ago)

Loathe though I am to come near this thread, did anyone else see the NYTimes (I think?) story about a lot of state budgets being better off post covid/recession than people predicted? A few states are still doing pretty badly, but a few are actually doing really well, too, and people seem to be at least partly crediting the impact of that $600 stimulus check for taking some of the burden off local governments.

Heck, here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/business/covid-state-tax-revenue.html

And I might as well C&P it, too, for anyone without access:

Virus Did Not Bring Financial Rout That Many States Feared
Grim forecasts held up for a few states, but many took in about as much tax revenue as before the pandemic — sometimes a lot more.

By Mary Williams Walsh

March 1, 2021

Throughout the debate over stimulus measures, one question has repeatedly brought gridlock in Washington: Should the states get no-strings federal aid?

Republicans have mostly said no, casting it as a bailout for spendthrift blue states. Democrats have argued the opposite, saying that states face dire fiscal consequences without aid, and included $350 billion in relief for state and local governments in President Biden’s $1.9 trillion federal stimulus bill, which narrowly passed the House this past weekend. It faces a much tougher fight in the Senate.

As it turns out, new data shows that a year after the pandemic wrought economic devastation around the country, forcing states to revise their revenue forecasts and prepare for the worst, for many the worst didn’t come. One big reason: $600-a-week federal supplements that allowed people to keep spending — and states to keep collecting sales tax revenue — even when they were jobless, along with the usual state unemployment benefits.

By some measures, the states ended up collecting nearly as much revenue in 2020 as they did in 2019. A J.P. Morgan survey called 2020 “virtually flat” with 2019, based on the 47 states that report their tax revenues every month, or all except Alaska, Oregon and Wyoming.

A researcher at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan think tank, found that total state revenues from April through December were down just 1.8 percent from the same period in 2019. Moody’s Analytics used a different method and found that 31 states now had enough cash to fully absorb the economic stress of the pandemic recession on their own.

“You can see it’s just a completely different story this time,” said Louise Sheiner, a Brookings Institution economist whose research showed that over all, the states struggled far less during the pandemic than in previous recessions.

New Jersey, for instance, managed to avoid financial calamity despite a dire forecast when the pandemic started, because of better-than-expected tax revenue from retail sales and high earners, who lost fewer jobs and reaped the benefits of a bullish stock market. However, it still had to borrow $4 billion in emergency relief.

The findings are being cited by Republican lawmakers. In a Feb. 2 blog post, the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California, said the J.P. Morgan report was evidence that the states were doing just fine. He called on Democrats not to insist on “blue-state slush funds that are not needed.”

At the same time, Democrats have said states need relief even if their revenues are resilient, because their costs will spiral as schools reopen and vaccination programs roll out.

States need revenue to function. For day-to-day operations, they raise money by collecting different kinds of taxes: sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes, and taxes on singular transactions like energy production or gasoline sales. (For public works, they issue bonds.)

Most state tax collections plunged last spring when shutdown orders started and millions were thrown out of work as businesses closed. That prompted many states to issue doomsday forecasts, lay off workers and turn to Washington for billions of dollars in aid to replace revenue they were expecting to lose. Many feared a replay of the Great Recession, when state revenues fell 8 percent and took more than five years to recover, exacerbating the overall downturn.

But this time, after falling 4 percent over all, Ms. Sheiner said, tax collections turned back up again, all in the span of a few months. She and other public finance experts cautioned that the numbers didn’t tell the full story. With new variants of the virus emerging, the pandemic isn’t over yet, and revenues could slip again — just as states increase spending amid signs of an economic rebound.

Also, averaging the states’ revenues — the J.P. Morgan report used weighted averages to show that revenues last year were down just 0.06 percent from 2019 — can mask the pain of the states whose tax collections have not yet rebounded. And focusing just on state revenue collection glosses over the weakness of local governments, which administer many social services under state administration.

No matter how they measured the states’ rebound, the analysts said the federal stimulus money that began to flow to consumers and small businesses late in March — especially the extraordinary support for the jobless through the end of July — had helped greatly. Those programs allowed consumer spending to continue, even as unemployment surged to levels not seen since the 1930s.

During the Great Recession, Congress sent supplements of just $25 a week. This time, Washington sent supplements of $600 a week. Since the pandemic ravaged low-wage sectors like retail sales and restaurants, adding $600 a week to the lowest unemployment benefits pushed many recipients’ purchasing power above what they had while working.

In Illinois, for example, per capita personal income actually rose as the pandemic kicked in. It climbed to $66,224 in the second quarter, from $59,896 in the first, according to the state’s Office of Management and Budget.

Consumer spending, in turn, bolstered the states’ sales tax revenues. The federal unemployment benefits also buoyed income tax receipts in the 36 states that tax unemployment benefits.

The Federal Reserve helped indirectly by making credit widely available at very low interest rates, prompting investors to leave the safety of the bond markets and buy stocks. That fueled an enormous stock-market rally, which ultimately gave states including New Jersey capital gains to tax.

Many states also benefited from tax-law changes enacted before the pandemic, after a 2018 Supreme Court decision that let them compel out-of-state retailers to collect sales taxes on online purchases. The new laws ended years of legal wrangling over how to tax such sales, just in time to help the states weather the pandemic-induced shift to online shopping.

“If the Covid-19 pandemic had occurred even five years earlier than it did, the impacts to state and local sales taxes would have been truly devastating,” Dan White, director of government consulting and public finance research at Moody’s, said.

In his survey, Peter DeGroot, head of municipal research and strategy at J.P. Morgan, found a handful of states, including Idaho, South Dakota and New Mexico, that managed to take in even more money last year than in 2019. The survey also identified several states where tax revenues have not yet bounced back because they depend heavily on tourism, oil and gas, or coal extraction — among them Hawaii, Nevada, Florida, Texas and West Virginia.

Ms. Sheiner’s analysis showed that Idaho had the biggest revenue recovery of any state. She conducted her research with Byron Lutz, an economist with the Federal Reserve.

The head of Idaho’s Division of Financial Management, Alex J. Adams, said in an interview that the rebound had taken officials by surprise, and that they thought one reason was an influx of new residents from California, seeking to escape that state’s high cost of living — a trend that started before the pandemic but accelerated last year. Mr. Adams also said Idaho didn’t pause construction when the lockdowns happened, which helped economic activity.

Idaho’s Republican governor, Brad Little, said in his State of the State address in January that 2020 revenue collections were strong enough to send $295 million back to the taxpayers, and still have enough to invest in better highways, bridges and broadband access. He also wrote to Idaho’s congressional delegation last year, urging it to oppose the use of no-strings federal dollars to bail out mismanaged states.

With some states now “enjoying windfalls” and others still struggling, Mr. White said a smaller amount of money, more carefully targeted to the states that needed it most, would be the most efficient approach for Congress. But getting assistance to those governments that truly need it, without sending unnecessary aid to those that do not, will require some “exceptional creativity,” he said.

To some extent, the states’ surprising recoveries reflect the timing of events last year. The pandemic started just as many state lawmakers were reviewing initial budget proposals for the coming fiscal year. The proposals, drawn up weeks before the shock, forecast a year of strong tax collections.

Then, in a matter of weeks, millions of people lost their jobs. State officials think of unemployment as a powerful driver of their fiscal affairs; research from past recessions suggests that a single percentage-point increase in the unemployment rate can produce $45 billion worth of state budget woe.

So they braced for disaster. Most states tore up their initial budgets, laid off workers and, like the federal government, pushed back their April income-tax deadlines to mid-July. Income tax receipts plummeted.

In April, the National Governors Association called on Congress to appropriate $500 billion “to meet the states’ budgetary shortfalls.” But the $500 billion of no-strings budget relief did not materialize. Most state lawmakers finished their budgets by the end of June and went home — and were not on hand to see the wave of income-tax revenue that arrived in mid-July.

By the end of July, revenue had recovered to 2019 levels and stayed there, said Ms. Sheiner, the policy director of the Hutchins Center on Fiscal and Monetary Policy at the Brookings Institution. Ms. Sheiner said she and her colleagues had been pointing out the signs of a recovery since September, but state officials remain guarded. They have not yet begun hiring back the 1.3 million public workers they laid off.

“If you talk to state and local government officers, they’re really cautious,” she said. “There’s so much uncertainty. They’re thinking, What if it goes back to how it was last spring?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:37 (five years ago)

lol why aren’t young people making expensive babies?!?!

Experts sound the alarm on declining birth rates among younger generations: "It's a crisis" https://t.co/MkdeBtVFiC

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 3, 2021

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:44 (five years ago)

_I just don’t know what doing dumb shit gets them._

All 50 democratic senators' votes, instead of fewer than 50.


Ok, then, more specifically—what does it get Sinema or Manchin? Who is in their ear telling them that if we give poor and working class people (of which both your states have tons) direct stimulus money then Bad Stuff Will Happen?

Their corporate donors? Jesus? The Great goddamn Gazoo? I’m honestly asking who.

Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:45 (five years ago)

Millennials are not killing the condom industry.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 20:45 (five years ago)

Ok, then, more specifically—what does it get Sinema or Manchin?

As you have pointed out, there's plenty of reason to think these are dumb shit moves, poorly conceived, wrong-headed and counter-productive. But we just got a four year object lesson in a president who made countless poorly conceived, wrong-headed and counter-productive dumb shit moves and lost an election because of it. He still thought he was being smart all the way along and we all had to deal with the fallout. Sinema and Manchin aren't senators because they are political geniuses. Stupid assholes get elected, too.

Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:05 (five years ago)

]There are a lot of things to be mad at the Dems about, but those of you convinced that this whole $1400 vs $2000 thing is a big deal are just ... wrong. It's not. The Republicans are NEVER going to run ads anywhere talking about $2,000 checks


Lmao saving this one.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:05 (five years ago)

yeah thinking about that, they will specifically say "donald trump promised $2000 checks and joe biden gave you $1400"

little johnny juul (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:09 (five years ago)

I’m willing to means test the benefit if the poor hicks in tha fuckin sticks are willing to have their amounts in their podunkvilles reduced for their lower costs of living. Now that’s some real means testing.

^^not my real position but just wanted to pass that means test vibe on for ya.

pence's eye juice (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:09 (five years ago)

Experts sound the alarm on declining birth rates among younger generations: "It's a crisis" https://t.co/MkdeBtVFiC

— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 3, 2021

o no, fewer people taking up space in the USA how will the economy survive

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:29 (five years ago)

fewer people who won't stimulus checks imo

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:32 (five years ago)

I’m always confused when headlines scream that lower birth rates are “bad”

Canon in Deez (silby), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:41 (five years ago)

Conservatives fear them because it means fewer brown babies to discriminate against.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:43 (five years ago)

I thought it was more brown babies that they were afraid of

Canon in Deez (silby), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:43 (five years ago)

They’re never happy

Canon in Deez (silby), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:43 (five years ago)


yeah thinking about that, they will specifically say "donald trump promised $2000 checks and joe biden gave you $1400"

Well, if we all live another few years I'm sure we'll find out. I put the odds of this particular check being any kind of an issue at all in the '22 cycle at ... a very small number. We will have about 1,700 other things between now and then for people to get worked up about. And if this particular check is referenced by anyone, it will be Democrats saying "Remember when we gave you money."

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:44 (five years ago)

these babbies are terrible, and in increasingly small portions!

rob, Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:44 (five years ago)

millenials not having babies to make room for more illegals

akm, Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:48 (five years ago)

The number of babies the average woman in the U.S. is expected to deliver has dropped from nearly four in the 1950s to less than two today.

I'm not a woman, but this seems like nothing but good news to me? For women in particular. Criminy, four kids is a lot.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:50 (five years ago)

Every kind of demographic shift can cause some kind of problems. It's not like there won't be a labor pool in 30 years, because immigration is an easy solution to that, bringing yet a different set of problems. A "crisis" this is not.

Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:52 (five years ago)

One concern (or concern-troll depending on the outlet) is not having the tax-paying workforce to cover for 85-year old Gen Xers who still won’t stop talking about Lollapalooza I guess.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:54 (five years ago)

and when you touch down, you'll find that it's stranger than known

ok? pic.twitter.com/QWRZpA0QWv

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) March 3, 2021

little johnny juul (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:54 (five years ago)

Sen Johnson Obsessed with Thickness, Inches

rob, Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:55 (five years ago)

they call him Thick Johnson

so tonight that I might ramona quimby (f. hazel), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:56 (five years ago)

One concern (or concern-troll depending on the outlet) is not having the tax-paying workforce to cover for 85-year old Gen Xers who still won’t stop talking about Lollapalooza I guess.

I feel like abundant and cheap legal weed is going address most of that problem.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 21:58 (five years ago)

Experts sound the alarm on declining birth rates among younger generations: "It's a crisis" https://t.co/MkdeBtVFiC
— CBS News (@CBSNews) March 3, 2021

isn't this how the movie Idiocracy starts?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:00 (five years ago)

Idiocracy specifically starts with smart upwardly mobile white people not making babies leaving that to dumb poor POC and immigrants.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:03 (five years ago)

lol f hazel

We’re Up All Night To Get Lochte (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:03 (five years ago)

xp ok it's been awhile i only saw it once

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:04 (five years ago)

Senator Johnson could have produced a chart with even more impressive numbers if he'd gone with pennies instead of one dollar bills.

Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:08 (five years ago)

i misread the word "pennies" for a second there

little johnny juul (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:11 (five years ago)

ew

Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:12 (five years ago)

i appreciated that today, in the "neanderthal" interaction with the media, biden knew off-hand how many people had died, as of yesterday. it's hard to explain without the clip, but he fumbled for a card in his pocket which he says he carries with him but had just left on his desk, then explained that the card showed how many americans had died of covid so far, but that as of yesterday it was 511,874.

i hope stuff like that pushes back on the "senile joe" movement to rest a bit, at least one the left. i don't expect the one on the right to ever let up

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:14 (five years ago)

he said it so quickly and easily, too, it was almost alarming. but i recognize that. it comes from just seeing those numbers a lot, consistently and frequently. from feb 20 til around december 2020, i used to log the illinois COVID numbers into my spreadsheet, every single night. even though there were lots of websites that would do that automatically. i liked keeping my own sheet, making my own graphs, etc. because of that, i could rattle off some of the Illinois numbers precisely - the deaths, the new cases, the positive %, hospitalized - without making an effort to commit it to memory. it was just because it was important to me and i was paying attention and it was around.

anyway, three hurrahs for competency, but i like to see that

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:18 (five years ago)

(standard disclaimers: yes, i know that every american president should be in prison for at least a few things they did, and yes of course i hate trump too)

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:19 (five years ago)

i wouldnt say he's any less lucid than any other 78 year old I've known but that's not saying much for a world leader or is it?

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 22:40 (five years ago)

no, but on one hand (the left one, actually), there is much saying that biden is vastly diminished, nearing automaton-status, he can barely speak etc, while on the other hand, the right one, there is also much saying that biden is literally out of his mind and that this paves the way kamala harris which was the plan all along etc

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:04 (five years ago)

may I see your hands

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:05 (five years ago)

actually no

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:05 (five years ago)

it's been 11 months, I'm not sure what might happen

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:05 (five years ago)

You don't have to mention it, no thanks

i'm a government man

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:06 (five years ago)

there is also much saying that biden is literally out of his mind and that this paves the way kamala harris which was the plan all along etc

what else are they planning? tell me more

(•̪●) (carne asada), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:08 (five years ago)

i misread the word "pennies" for a second there

looool, so did I!

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:09 (five years ago)

You don't have to mention it, no thanks

i'm a government man

― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone),

I'm so thin!

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:09 (five years ago)

xp it has to do with the one world government and bill gates/vaccinations. this has been in motion for a long time, some say every 80 years, this is the fourth turning, we all know what i'm talking about here

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:10 (five years ago)

xp you have no idea how deeply i related to that song on a literal level during the obama years

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:10 (five years ago)

i would listen to it while riding the train into work and be like "well i guess it's neat to have my own 'song', like mechanics in NJ have springsteen songs"

Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:11 (five years ago)

don't even mention it!

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 March 2021 23:11 (five years ago)


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