“It’s a little too quiet” - US Politics February 2021

Better to elect more Democratic senators and dilute their power.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, February 26, 2021 1:34 PM (six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

100% agree, though the Senate majority that Democrats currently have feels extremely fragile, given Republicans' long-term structural advantages and commitment to voter suppression. Seems like we should strike while the iron is hot!

in the instance of minimum wage in the covid relief bill, manchin and sinema needn't even be relevant, cause harris can overrule the parliamentarian, force minimum wage into the bill, and dare manchin and sinema to vote against the covid relief bill. i do understand why harris and biden might consider it too big a risk to imperil the entire covid relief plan like that, but i don't think even the wonder twins would vote against the whole bill if it contains a wage hike.

but it's like, your parenthetical is kinda doing the thing that, to me, could be read as not appreciating the heavier burden of representation that black politicians like Obama and Harris face, as opposed to white people, and especially white men.

Harris and Obama are the names that were used here but the parenthetical is about the never ending stream of excuses at ILX even when the Democrat is a white man - it is always simply unavoidable for Joe Biden to have not been the bag man for MBNA or point man for mass incarceration, “but but red state,” all the way to the assumption that Harris’s choice to make her career as a prosecutor is inherently value neutral.

That said, I assume the highest cost of living to minimum wage ratio is California, so a local Democratic government will only get you so far.

Like the red state dance is ongoing here for Manchin and Sinema but a minimum wage hike and $2000 checks are more popular in their states than either of them.

that is, if there isn't going to be any change to reduce the cost of housing for low income people. ... Like, I can see on one level, putting the cost of shitty housing and development policies on employers, who don't have control over housing policies, how that could be viewed as unfair, and how it is impractical and could hurt small businesses or businesses that don't have the same access to capital/financing/etc as large corporations (e.g. the inequities of the initial PPP program). Maybe tax credits for "eligible small employers" and penalties for large corporations is the way to go. ... As well as beefing up IRS and Dept of Labor departments that handle misclassification of workers as contractors.

Maybe the housing portion comes later ... it's definitely a larger endeavor and literally requires structural work.

Cost of living by state doesn’t work because urban areas in ‘cheap’ states are out of whack. Rents in Birmingham and Nashville are insane.

Saying Sinema represents a newly blue state is giving her too much credit. Arizona has another Democratic senator who doesn’t do this stuff.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, February 26, 2021 1:35 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Tbh, I don't think Mark Kelly has said whether he supports the filibuster or not. Not a happy thought, but I actually wonder if Manchin and Sinema have decided to cover for other moderate Dem senators (like Jon Tester or Chris Coons) who are equally opposed but don't want to say so on the record.

That said, I assume the highest cost of living to minimum wage ratio is California, so a local Democratic government will only get you so far.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, February 26, 2021 11:40 AM (one minute ago)

and the biggest reason for this is the cost of housing, and there's only so much a city council, or a mayor, or a board of supervisors, or state government can do there.

Cost of living by state doesn’t work because urban areas in ‘cheap’ states are out of whack. Rents in Birmingham and Nashville are insane.

― Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Friday, February 26, 2021 11:42 AM (two minutes ago)

true, there are also cheap regions in California and New York. ... a lot of the differences are urban vs. rural.

Tbh, I don't think Mark Kelly has said whether he supports the filibuster or not. Not a happy thought, but I actually wonder if Manchin and Sinema have decided to cover for other moderate Dem senators (like Jon Tester or Chris Coons) who are equally opposed but don't want to say so on the record.

As a practical matter, states with lower costs of living tend to be redder. In that environment the federal government’s minimal role is to set a floor and leave it up to higher cost of living (generally bluer) states to do better than the floor. That seems politically more feasible than a federal cost of living wage and has a similar effect (Austin and Miami notwithstanding).

otm but also obviously the reason to make the federal floor as high as you can get it, because in a lot of places that's where it's going to stay. My state doesn't even have a minimum wage, if there were no federal law it would be, like, a handful of boiled peanuts.

tbh I am still wondering why milo is taking a specific argument about trailblazing Black politicians in this modern era being too chickenshit to do what needs to be done as carte blanche cover for the behavior of the entire Democratic party

I mean, I know why, but still

and furthermore, why the axis of universalization of this specific argument isn't "Democrats are too fucking concerned with looking like The Bad Guys 50 years from now" but "there is nothing you can ever criticize a Democrat for"

Basically, because I am not making the argument he wants me to make, my argument is invalid. It doesn't matter if I have lived experience or real-life connections to any of these people informing my opinion, it doesn't match his scenario so therefore it is de facto wrong and my aim must be to quell and suppress any and all criticism of the Democratic Party.

Perhaps because it is anathema here to suggest that any given Democrat is not “chickenshit” or otherwise hemmed in by forces outside of their control but pursuing a political program that serves their interests and the interests of that segment of society they actually care about.

I r'cd an alert from Fair Fight (Stacey Abrams) asking people to contact their House Reps to support "H.R. 1- For the People Act". Fired off an email. Took about five minutes.

*looks at today’s discussion of Manchin and Sinema, then looks back at milo’s post*

otm but also obviously the reason to make the federal floor as high as you can get it, because in a lot of places that's where it's going to stay. My state doesn't even _have_ a minimum wage, if there were no federal law it would be, like, a handful of boiled peanuts.

so far the checks are symbolic in more ways than one

It's not "anathema" Milo, and it's true in some cases (hello President Citibank). But it also feels like some kind of purity argument about people's "actual" motives or the dark secrets of their hearts, and tbh the mechanics of politics and getting shit done is somewhat divorced from what's in people's hearts. There are good people who vote for bad bills out of what they perceive as political strategy, and bad people who vote for good bills for the same reasons. The mechanics of politics operate somewhat independently of any one politician's actual views and values, to the extent they have them at all.

So, I mean, stipulate that all Democrats are craven lizard people, I don't care. What's it going to take to get the minimum wage passed?

maybe more speculation about what's in people's hearts will do it

Apparently voting for Democrats isn’t going to get a minimum wage hike passed? But then making a snarky comment like that is saying the two parties are identical.

looks at today’s discussion of Manchin and Sinema, then looks back at milo’s post*

This thread has multiple “but red state” excuses?

The effective nationwide minimum wage is $11.80/hr, which comes out to $23,600/year if you're working full time at 50 weeks.

At $15/hr, you get $30,000/year using the same weekly and yearly figures.

It is astounding that we are having this conversation right now, because what we should really be talking about is $20/hr being the minimum wage, because that's what it should be.

table otm

I don't care. What's it going to take to get the minimum wage passed?

sorry, tipsy. this is pragmatism, which can be mistaken for centrism. centrism is the worst sin of all. so, pragmatism is anathema, lest it lead to centrism.

REPORTER: "What's your view of the Wyden-Sanders idea of raising taxes on corporations and companies that don't pay a minimum wage from $15 an hour?"

McCARTHY: "I think it's stupid." pic.twitter.com/mmbFagCF1T

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) February 26, 2021

A missed opportunity to push through, well, their electoral commitments with the actual opposition in disarray.

How $1.9 trillion bills become law with token opposition https://t.co/3yYJygM2aM

— Benjy Sarlin (@BenjySarlin) February 26, 2021

did Daft Punk die or something?

this is pragmatism

Ah, yes, pragmatism. Like voting for Biden-Harris - who have announced that they will not override the unelected parliamentarian to include even an insufficient minimum wage increase in the only bill where it would realistically become law.

But at least we dropped a few million dollars in bombs on the other side of the world.

What a new and interesting outlook on Dems we've never been presented with before

at minimum, if they aren't going to override the parliamentarian, they should be submitting a separate bill for the minimum rage increase by the end of the day or week or whatever ASAP translates to in congressworld

Unlike the 1.3 million - and somehow still ongoing - posts about Trump news here.

it's ridiculous because

1. does anyone on this thread actually oppose raising the federal minimum wage to $15/hr
2. the people who will benefit most from the increase are white people in regions that largely vote GOP -- basically, the voters the Democrats want to "win"

this is pragmatism

Ah, yes, pragmatism. Like voting for Biden-Harris...

But, instead of addressing what both tipsy and I actually were advocating, which was finding a way to raise the federal minimum wage, you equate it with something else entirely, then address why that tangent you introduced is bad, therefore pragmatism is bad.

But do you want to find a way to increase the federal minimum wage, even if it is less than what you, tipsy or I would prefer, or not? That's what you skipped over and what's really the issue.

Also the minimum wage is actually going to get raised, fwiw. Just not enough, and there will be some unsavory trade-offs to get there. Which is exactly what anyone who understands the dynamics of the current situation and the orientations of the players would have predicted from the beginning. But we can all fantasize about living in other realities, it doesn't cost anything.

Hate to tell you this, but there are no political solutions to be found on ILX.

we should be forwarding this thread daily to the Democratic Party leadership milo!

Like voting for Biden-Harris - who have announced that they will not override the unelected parliamentarian to include even an insufficient minimum wage increase in the only bill where it would realistically become law.

Oh yeah, I remember when they specifically mentioned they'd do this on the campaign trail. Yes, I realize this isn't your larger point, but your schtick is beyond tired at this point.

Yes, we know Biden largely sucks and his administration has been infuriating on several levels. So while we continue to push for and organize for more progressive candidates at lower levels, we still need to hold his administration's feet to the fire and speak out against the bullshit. I mean, otherwise, what? We just sit on our hands and idly hope for better in a fundamentally flawed system? What are you suggesting is the alternative?

Centrism sucks, but your posts aren't suggesting anything actionable either.

Which is exactly what anyone who understands the dynamics of the current situation and the orientations of the players would have predicted from the beginning.

Everyone here “understood the dynamics of the situation.” $15 is in the COVID bill because it was the best chance to force Sinema and Manchin into supporting it.

Without so much as a two minute press conference reminding us all of the importance of the minimum wage hike, the pragmatic Democratic administration has folded on the issue.

So what, really, is the point of their existence?

So what, really, is the point of their existence?

What's the point of yours?

Centrism sucks, but your posts aren't suggesting anything actionable either.

I’ve never claimed to have ‘actionable’ solutions... because this is a message board.

“Stop posting and divine the solution” is only applicable when criticizing Democrats in power for some reason. It’s weird!

No one at ILX has voted to authorize the bombing of civilians or put someone in prison for a bag of weed, so I’d say everyone at ILX has more innate human value than anyone in the upper echelons of the Biden admin.

It feels like we are all just trying to get to the grocery store in the middle of thunderous downpour, struggling to cover up and make do with shitty umbrellas and newspapers stretched overhead, while milo stands in the nearest doorway shouting at every passerby, "bet you wish we had better weather, don't you!"

I’ve never claimed to have ‘actionable’ solutions... because this is a message board.

and yet...

I r'cd an alert from Fair Fight (Stacey Abrams) asking people to contact their House Reps to support "H.R. 1- For the People Act". Fired off an email. Took about five minutes.

In a world of binaries, if you cannot think of something which is immediately sufficient to change the world in the direction you desire, then there is nothing to be done. Binary thinking is deeply stupid.

You told me it was my duty to vote for the thunderstorm.

Maybe it's just because I've never had a president or congressional representative who did things the way I wanted them to do things, I am utterly unsurprised when they do not. Maybe you have had a different experience, I don't know. The minimum wage fight is still alive, and I'm reasonably confident we will get an increase to at least double-digits (even if it has to be phased in over a few years). That is the point of the existence of a Democratic president and congressional majority. We know for sure a Republican president and congressional majority wouldn't raise it a penny.

Of course, if they don't actually manage to raise it at all, then I will agree with you that it doesn't matter who's in charge. (At least as far as minimum wage goes.)