“It’s a little too quiet” - US Politics February 2021

To climb to a position of ultimate power in this system is its own triumph.

I realize that for many of you the entire actual right-wing half of this country is basically invisible, so it's easy to pretend Joe Biden is Tom Cotton or whatever.

something good*

To climb to a position of ultimate power in this system is its own triumph.

I understand and agree that this is cold comfort to most. It also rides very heavily on the historical component of what is weighing them down. It's an achievement in service of a long-term goal in an environment where we need a bunch of massive short-term wins.

I instinctively roll my eyes when I see people say that "Democrats don't care about you and don't actually want to make people's lives better," because that seems so hopelessly cynical and reduces complex structural forces to simplistic personal motivations. But at the same time, I understand why people *feel* like that's the case, because the system is so broken. I guess I find myself more upset at Democrats who actively refuse to fix the system (Kyrsten Sinema, for instance) than those who are merely stymied by its dysfunction.

There's literally no point to being a person of integrity with regards to the rules of the government if the other party is rewriting the states to keep you out of federal power and rebranding everything you do that's even partially helpful as damaging to our existence as a society; at some point, you need to go hard with "fuck around and find out" otherwise you are just incentivizing them to fuck around.

This. The thing I am most worried about right now is many bills being passed in R states with new voting restrictions that are going to make it very difficult for Ds to compete if R engagement continues at or near 2020 levels. I have to will myself not to think too much about it because it makes me feel like the earth opening up beneath my feet. I guess another donation to Fair Fight might help with that.

Republicans in my state are currently trying to impeach and remove a local judge who had the audacity last year to rule that the state had to let anyone who wanted use an absentee ballot during the pandemic.

This is good (biden doing something would be better)

Interesting new details from Senate Finance Chairman @RonWyden on his plans to work around the parliamentarian's minimum wage ruling — using tax penalties to push corporations to pay workers more. pic.twitter.com/YxXNzNllea

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) February 26, 2021

I guess I find myself more upset at Democrats who actively refuse to fix the system (Kyrsten Sinema, for instance) than those who are merely stymied by its dysfunction.

But I also get that this can seem like a distinction without a difference, because the end result is the same: Nothing happens. People don't get the help they need. The party that claimed to have the solution looks like a failure.

Where is the room for Obama or Harris (or any other powerful Democrat) simply having bad politics in certain areas?

That would be the other 50% I mentioned, if you actually took the time to read and comprehend what I wrote.

Sorry, the other 50% left over. That was unclearly stated.

That is a beautiful strawman you've built, milo. Very lifelike.

Like no one here ever suggested anything of the sort afaict.

if there's one takeaway from all the criticism of democrats from the past 30 or so posts is that criticism of democrats is not tolerated on this thread

I honestly have very little idea of what Harris’s politics are, other than her sincere opposition to the death penalty, which I don’t think she highlighted much during her campaign. Maybe this is my own ignorance, or the brevity of her run, I just never got a sense of what issues she truly focused on, or what her more fanatical supporters expected from a Harris administration.

Where is the room for Obama or Harris (or any other powerful Democrat) simply having bad politics in certain areas?

I think Dan articulately made room for that in his post. ... but it's like, your parenthetical is kinda doing the thing that, to me, could be read as not appreciating the heavier burden of representation that black politicians like Obama and Harris face, as opposed to white people, and especially white men.

I guess I find myself more upset at Democrats who actively refuse to fix the system (Kyrsten Sinema, for instance) than those who are merely stymied by its dysfunction.

Unhelpful allies are inherently more frustrating than outright enemies. But also ... Sinema, Manchin, you're not going to get anything but incrementalism from them. They are the wrong places to look. You do get something of value from them, which is that Mitch McConnell is no longer the Senate majority leader. That's not insignificant. But that is all they're good for and all you can pragmatically expect under the circumstances. Focusing rage on them is wasted energy imo. And it means you have to placate them in various ways, because Mitch McConnell is the literal alternative.

if there's one takeaway from all the criticism of democrats from the past 30 or so posts is that criticism of democrats is not tolerated on this thread

― little johnny juul (voodoo chili)

guess you weren't on ILE between 2005 and 2011, eh

i was in high school and college

Also, it's an inconvenient fact to remember fuckin Manchin and fucking Sinema are senators in red states and newly blue states, respectively. I'm gonna complain about them forever and ignore the first point myself.

i was in high school and college

― little johnny juul (voodoo chili),

Well, the late Bush and early Obama years were not periods of centrist/Democratic kumbaya.

on ILE

I wish I understood Sinema at all. Her views are at least malleable, is there some weird shit she could be bribed with?

What a POS: https://www.keloland.com/keloland-com-original/on-the-phone-off-the-road-ravnsborgs-activity-prior-to-the-crash/

― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Saturday, February 27, 2021 3:49 AM (two hours ago)

otm

I think the point Dan made about the 4th or 5th (etc) often being the one that makes the most difference/leads the greatest equitable change is a super good one. I think about AOC vs. other female POC politicians, like my congressperson, Barbara Lee. ... Anyway, this dynamic is one that women also face in male dominated spaces. But I also think that it was a bit "uncharitable" shall we say, to go off on table and other more leftist posters by kinda ignoring the phrase "in many cases" in his post.

I think we can all agree that the phrase "in many cases" does not equal "exactly the same in everything" ? Can we?

I don't have much trouble with regular commenters even when they post myopic garbage with the exception of xyzzz.

I think we can all agree that the phrase "in many cases" does not equal "exactly the same in everything" ? Can we?

Still sounds like libertarian bro-speak to me. Pass the IPA.

guess you weren't on ILE between 2005 and 2011, eh

I think voodoo chili's comment was meant to be heavily ironic, as in 'you can't fight in here; it's the War Room!'.

As far as the minimum wage thing goes -- I definitely think it should be raised.

However, the cost of living nationwide is really varied. For reference, the wide eyed looks that Californians get when they see how cheap it is to buy property in Oregon or Nevada.

Where I live, the City minimum wage is $14.14/hr and people making that and working full time still are living in poverty because the cost of housing is so high. ... $15/hr -- not really gonna make that much of a difference there.

I guess my feeling is, there should be some legislation that either ties minimum wage to regional costs of housing, or adds housing benefits through a separate program so that everyone working minimum wage jobs can afford a place to fucking live.

xp yes, thank you aimless

Unhelpful allies are inherently more frustrating than outright enemies. But also ... Sinema, Manchin, you're not going to get anything but incrementalism from them. They are the wrong places to look. You do get something of value from them, which is that Mitch McConnell is no longer the Senate majority leader. That's not insignificant. But that is all they're good for and all you can pragmatically expect under the circumstances. Focusing rage on them is wasted energy imo. And it means you have to placate them in various ways, because Mitch McConnell is the literal alternative.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, February 26, 2021 1:15 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I understand this, though it's particularly hard to swallow that they seem to be the only people standing in the way of getting rid of the filibuster and thus opening the door to all sorts of genuinely good legislation passing. It makes more sense to me to target anger at them rather than complaining that Biden isn't doing things that the executive office has no power to do.

There is not a region in America where the cost of living is such that 15$/hour should not be the minimum wage

xpost

Better to elect more Democratic senators and dilute their power.

I'm just saying that in some regions of America, the minimum wage should be much higher than $15/hr!

Saying Sinema represents a newly blue state is giving her too much credit. Arizona has another Democratic senator who doesn’t do this stuff.

I'm just saying that in some regions of America, the minimum wage should be much higher than $15/hr!

guess you weren't on ILE between 2005 and 2011, eh

I think voodoo chili's comment was meant to be heavily ironic, as in 'you can't fight in here; it's the War Room!'.

― Judge Roi Behan (Aimless)

Ironymeters switched off for lunch, especially when it's Friday and I allow myself a glass of wine.

I’d love federal law that requires different minimum wages in different parts of the country but it doesn’t seem realistic.

As a practical matter, states with lower costs of living tend to be redder. In that environment the federal government’s minimal role is to set a floor and leave it up to higher cost of living (generally bluer) states to do better than the floor. That seems politically more feasible than a federal cost of living wage and has a similar effect (Austin and Miami notwithstanding).

Some of the bigger tech companies and nonprofits do payroll adjustments for the workers fleeing CA to live in cheaper climes. They'll have payroll tiers based on a number of factors; in effect: by all means, move to Missoula, but don't expect a Palo Alto salary when you do so.

Better to elect more Democratic senators and dilute their power.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, February 26, 2021 1:34 PM (six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

100% agree, though the Senate majority that Democrats currently have feels extremely fragile, given Republicans' long-term structural advantages and commitment to voter suppression. Seems like we should strike while the iron is hot!

in the instance of minimum wage in the covid relief bill, manchin and sinema needn't even be relevant, cause harris can overrule the parliamentarian, force minimum wage into the bill, and dare manchin and sinema to vote against the covid relief bill. i do understand why harris and biden might consider it too big a risk to imperil the entire covid relief plan like that, but i don't think even the wonder twins would vote against the whole bill if it contains a wage hike.

but it's like, your parenthetical is kinda doing the thing that, to me, could be read as not appreciating the heavier burden of representation that black politicians like Obama and Harris face, as opposed to white people, and especially white men.

Harris and Obama are the names that were used here but the parenthetical is about the never ending stream of excuses at ILX even when the Democrat is a white man - it is always simply unavoidable for Joe Biden to have not been the bag man for MBNA or point man for mass incarceration, “but but red state,” all the way to the assumption that Harris’s choice to make her career as a prosecutor is inherently value neutral.

That said, I assume the highest cost of living to minimum wage ratio is California, so a local Democratic government will only get you so far.

Like the red state dance is ongoing here for Manchin and Sinema but a minimum wage hike and $2000 checks are more popular in their states than either of them.

that is, if there isn't going to be any change to reduce the cost of housing for low income people. ... Like, I can see on one level, putting the cost of shitty housing and development policies on employers, who don't have control over housing policies, how that could be viewed as unfair, and how it is impractical and could hurt small businesses or businesses that don't have the same access to capital/financing/etc as large corporations (e.g. the inequities of the initial PPP program). Maybe tax credits for "eligible small employers" and penalties for large corporations is the way to go. ... As well as beefing up IRS and Dept of Labor departments that handle misclassification of workers as contractors.

Maybe the housing portion comes later ... it's definitely a larger endeavor and literally requires structural work.

Cost of living by state doesn’t work because urban areas in ‘cheap’ states are out of whack. Rents in Birmingham and Nashville are insane.

Saying Sinema represents a newly blue state is giving her too much credit. Arizona has another Democratic senator who doesn’t do this stuff.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, February 26, 2021 1:35 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Tbh, I don't think Mark Kelly has said whether he supports the filibuster or not. Not a happy thought, but I actually wonder if Manchin and Sinema have decided to cover for other moderate Dem senators (like Jon Tester or Chris Coons) who are equally opposed but don't want to say so on the record.

That said, I assume the highest cost of living to minimum wage ratio is California, so a local Democratic government will only get you so far.

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, February 26, 2021 11:40 AM (one minute ago)

and the biggest reason for this is the cost of housing, and there's only so much a city council, or a mayor, or a board of supervisors, or state government can do there.

Cost of living by state doesn’t work because urban areas in ‘cheap’ states are out of whack. Rents in Birmingham and Nashville are insane.

― Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Friday, February 26, 2021 11:42 AM (two minutes ago)

true, there are also cheap regions in California and New York. ... a lot of the differences are urban vs. rural.