Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

Have I missed mid or post credits scenes on all the episodes prior to this week. Caught this week's one.

this is the first i think

When i was a kid Agatha was not evil iirc ... dangerous, but an ally. Did she become more of an outright villain in the comics during the 90s and later?

In any case, I’m glad it’s her, great character

So for reference here are the acknowledged character creators chronologically (have fun sic!):

Jimmy Woo - Al Feldstein, Joe Maneely (1956)
Scarlet Witch - Jack Kirby, Stan Lee (1964)
Quicksilver - Jack Kirby, Stan Lee (1964)
Vision - Roy Thomas, John Buscema (1968)
Agatha Harkness - Jack Kirby, Stan Lee (1970)
Monica Rambeau / Captain Marvel 2 / Photon / Pulsar / Spectrum - Roger Stern, John Romita Jr (1982)
Tommy and Billy - Steve Englehart, Richard Howell (1986)
S.W.O.R.D. - Joss Whedon, John Cassady (2004)
Darcy Lewis - J Michael Straczynski for the first Thor film (2011)

This seems to bring us to current times in sitcom land, unless next episode is a Schitt's Creek theme.

Would be great if suddenly the next episode was set in Westview, New Brunswick.

I know it won’t happen but I would probably die if the next one was Twin Peaks: The Return themed.

Who'd be the house band?

dazzler

Better Call Wanda

That’s funny because reading you guys talk about this show, it does sound like MCU Twin Peaks or something.

Well out of the gate with the runup to the first episode reviewers were dropping "It's very Lynchian" takes and things which, um, no, but if the first episodes were like anything it was like On the Air, as I half mumbled before.

closest this got to lynch was the dinner party.

lol otm. the repeated "stop its" kinda felt Lynchian.

really this is just sort of the first horror/thriller entry in the MCU series.

single tear from halloween mom stuck in idle loop by "her" (clearly agatha now and not wanda) seemed like a conscious nod to Get Out, yes.

i just noticed that's Kathryn Hahn's voice singing in the Agatha All Along song with the Lopez's credited with The Munsters Theme swipe.
let's see if this works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QYf8J6kBAg

definitely a male voice

I'm not so definite?

knowing that it's her actually singing it just makes that song even more delightful

I didn't know she sang, that is dope

When i was a kid Agatha was not evil iirc ... dangerous, but an ally. Did she become more of an outright villain in the comics during the 90s and later?

Tommy and Billy - Steve Englehart, Richard Howell (1986)

So did Agatha create the kids? Create the dog? Create Pietro? Heck, create and expand the hex? Is this something in line with her powers in the comics?

Kinda like how Groot first appeared in a 1960 horror comic by Jack Kirby, but the version of him that everyone loves (who's only similarity to horror version is being a sentient tree alien) was only introduced in the Annihilation: Conquest crossover in 2007 by Keith Giffen, who wanted to repurpose some obscure Marvel space aliens for his Star-Lord miniseries.

(xpost)

So did Agatha create the kids? Create the dog? Create Pietro? Heck, create and expand the hex? Is this something in line with her powers in the comics?

Yes, Billy and Tommy were shown to be born in The Vision and the Scarlet Witch miniseries in 1986 by Englehart and Howell. But in that one, and in Englehart's West Coast Avengers run they weren't really proper characters

Oh, and in the comics Wanda's magical powers are explained by her being a "nexus being" - a sort of a personification of the magic of the universe, of which there are only one in each parallel universe. That's why she's powerful enough to reality-warp the entire Earth, like she did in The House of M. This episode's fake ad with the "Nexus" brand antidepressant was clearly a nod to all that.

(xpost)

they're not really proper characters here yet either!

that's a terrible way to talk about the Englehart family.

Lol.

First comics appearance of Agatha I remember is as Franklin Richards' babysitter, and she was good at that point, if fearsome.

Biggest questions that remain for me right now:

Are the kids real, and where did they come from?
How was Vision brought back to life (with independent agency), and how/why did Wanda steal his body (assuming she actually did)?
What is Agatha's goal? Is there any chance she is *not* the baddie at all, not even a secondary baddie, and this is an exercise in tough love to spark new Wanda powers into existence? (Which would be more in line with her comic book version)?

Are the kids real, and where did they come from?

Well Josh, when an android and a witch love each other very much...

I'm assuming that the eighth episode will be addressing the main concern of non-comics fans, which is "Who the fuck is Agatha Harkness?", so at least your fifth question has a decent chance?

xp Tracer I sat on my hands for that specific joke :)

willing to make the obvious joke on dis ting since 2001

if we assume that the show's meta-asides are to be taken as messages from a reliable narrator (as they have so far wrt theme lyrics, visual asides suggesting not all is as it seems), Agatha is described in the song as insidious, perfidious and "messing up everything." She also admits to killing a dog with Wicked Witch of the West flair which is a cancelable offense these days so i figure her as a straight-up baddie, potentially in league with larger baddies tbd but likely already mentioned in this thread.

Worth noting (or not, who even knows anymore) that, in the comics, Sparky is not a real live organic dog but rather a synthezoid dog created by Vision.

next ep to be directed by Tim Burton, focus on Agatha's father

We don't even know what's "real"/permanent in this world yet, so maybe the dog was, yeah, not real. I guess we'll see soon enough if she's a baddie or what kind of baddie she is. I only know Hahn as a comedic actor. Does she have compelling drama chops, too, that would make her a convincing villain? That's sort of another reason I think she may not be a villain, she seems like a good character to want/have around.

In this world, safe to assume Dr. Strange knows about this ongoing magical anomaly, right? What is his relationship with Agatha in the comics? Peers? Rivals?

For that matter, why is everything being directed like a TV show, or different eras of TV shows, at all? And why was it glitching last episode?

bet you were fun in Sunday School

I'm sayin': MOJO

(I really should've put money on Mojo being involved, could really make some bank on such a...longshot bet)

xpost That's actually kind of funny, because as best as I can remember that's totally how I was in Sunday school!

i see your Mojo theory and raise you Arcade.

(also i don't think making Agatha a baddie means she won't have a place in the ongoing universe; plenty of villains recur. Loki's gonna have his own series shortly!)

still hopeful that MCU Agatha won't turn out to be pure baddie

she could be a Dr Freeze "I do bad to achieve good" type

Here's to hoping she bafflingly overemploys cold-related puns for the rest of the series.

"Ice" to kill your dog

I know it's been remarked upon plenty of times now, but Kathryn Hahn's casting here is genius. I think the MCU, in general, has done a great job with casting choices.

sorry I needed to find a place for this: https://tv.avclub.com/revisit-mary-kate-and-ashleys-diss-track-about-sister-e-1846326514

that fucking agatha song has been stuck in my head constantly