Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

I just read that WandaVision supposedly features more SFX shots then Endgame!

well it is twice as long

At the same time, can't imagine the kids sticking around the MCU as kids, or for that matter as adults, which would be strange, given the age of their mom. Any thoughts of how it might play out in the plot ahead?

and kate bishop's showing up in Hawkeye so hmmmmm

this may have already been addressed but was the other kid dressed up for halloween as gambit?

no, Wiccan from YA.

right, duh; forgot about that whole extension of the storyline.

So Young Avengers is a) a thing and b) something they may just be keeping in their back pocket for later? Or it could be just more easter eggs for fans, I suppose, though like I said, I can't imagine them giving Wanda kids and then taking them away, after already taking away her husband and brother. I mean, of course they *can*, but it just seems a bit much.

what would be a bit much would be having this be a hysterical wanda story, which i think there is zero chance of considering the politics of this universe so there's gotta be a reckoning

(to be clear, the politics of the Marvel Studios world, NOT the politics of standard Marvel comics where hysterical wanda had been the norm for decades)

We already know Kate Bishop is coming into the MCU in the Hawkeye series, Cassie Lang has already been introduced and even recast for Ant-Man 3. Add some Champions (Ms. Marvel we know is coming in, maybe we'll see a Amadeus Cho, Viv Vision or Miles Morales?) Def seems like a likely direction, esp since the MCU is nearly 15 years old in-universe!

Well the actors are aging out of course

I would be surprised if they do the Hawkeye series and then go backwards and make her a Young Avenger.

Why? That seems like the entire MCU modus operandi

everybody's a mutant

I just read that WandaVision supposedly features more SFX shots then Endgame!

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, February 16, 2021 7:37 AM (six hours ago)

well it is twice as long

― silverfish, Tuesday, February 16, 2021 8:02 AM (six hours ago)

possible also reason? there are lots of shots of humans on sets interacting with effects in this show, whereas vast swathes of Endgame were basically animated from the start, with the face-and-mocap characters just worked in like any hand-drawn or CGI-originated chars

xxp Because she’s in her mid-20s, and the Young Avengers were originally adolescents.

(Of course, they could do a new team and call it anything.)

As for Monica's mysterious "aerospace engineer" friend, I think it's gonna be Talos, the head Skrull from Captain Marvel. Monica probably knows him because of her connection to Carol Danvers, and the post-credits scene in Far from Home showed that Nick Fury is in space (possibly on a SWORD related mission?) while Talos is subbing for him on Earth.

(to be clear, the politics of the Marvel Studios world, NOT the politics of standard Marvel comics where hysterical wanda had been the norm for decades)

"hysterical Wanda goes koo-koo and bends reality to her will" stories in the comics have gotten so much (deserved) criticism

It's just about writing. If anything the heroic story of a young refugee, systemically tortured by a rogue state and terrorists as a child, who gets left alone finally finds happiness and love only to have it wrenched from her again - she deals with her grief in own way, lashing out indiscriminately and not caring who she hurts - before emerging stronger on her own terms; that's a story that plays *better* in today's environment.

there are lots of shots of humans on sets interacting with effects in this show, whereas vast swathes of Endgame were basically animated from the start, with the face-and-mocap characters just worked in like any hand-drawn or CGI-originated chars

Exactly my thinking. If you think of e.g. Endgame as animated films - as all of the green screen leaks hint - then building the world is time consuming but after that it's only* computer time to produce it. This has weird stuff like doing practical effects and simultaneously cleaning them up and making them look worse - thinking of the plate flying in ep1 which has to be made to look like magic while obviously looking badly carried on a wire.

*For various values of "only"

(to be clear, the politics of the Marvel Studios world, NOT the politics of standard Marvel comics where hysterical wanda had been the norm for decades)

One of the biggest reasons why I think some other antagonist will be revealed to have created the simulation is that the "hysterical Wanda goes koo-koo and bends reality to her will" stories in the comics have gotten so much (deserved) criticism that I really, really doubt they'd want to repeat the same here and risk a similar backlash from a much larger audience.

I don't want a repeat of cuckoo Wanda stories either, but I'll be disappointed if/when it's revealed that someone else is pulling the strings*. Reality warping powers should be enormous! But in stories I've read/seen of Wanda, aside from House of M (which ofc has all the grubbiness of 'hysterical woman' narrative), her presence feels minimised and co-dependent (or subservient?) to people around her. I'd like to see a story where Wanda gets to be in control of (not controlled by) 'omega'-level power without being portrayed as hysterical, if that's even possible given the way she's been written in the past. Not necessarily as a supervillain - just as a moral grey area character, which are usually the most interesting ones imo.

I'm not sure how 'in control' Wanda is at the moment, though - we've seen her tell sword/shield/whoever it is outside the hex to buzz off, we've seen her expand the hex, but we've also seen her look a bit perplexed when quizzed about how she's running the simulation, right?

*unless, maybe, as someone suggested upthread it's Amahl Farouk, though I'd be surprised, and not optimistic that an MCU Farouk would have the menace and charisma of Legion's Farouk

I don't want a repeat of cuckoo Wanda stories either, but I'll be disappointed if/when it's revealed that someone else is pulling the strings*. Reality warping powers should be enormous! But in stories I've read/seen of Wanda, aside from House of M (which ofc has all the grubbiness of 'hysterical woman' narrative), her presence feels minimised and co-dependent (or subservient?) to people around her. I'd like to see a story where Wanda gets to be in control of (not controlled by) 'omega'-level power without being portrayed as hysterical, if that's even possible given the way she's been written in the past.

Agreed, and the IMO Young Avengers story that finally (kinda, sorta) fixed the damage done to her character by Bendis in Dissassembled and House of M was a pretty good attempt at doing this.

But with the MCU, having her to be a benevolent reality-warper has an obvious extra hurdle, i.e. that she isn't supposed to have reality-warping powers in this setting. The Infinity Stone that granted her and Vision their powers (the Mind Stone) is explicitly not the one with reality-warping powers, that's the Reality Stone. This is biggest in-universe reason why I think they'll reveal someone else to be the creator of the simulation; saying it's her who did it all means that her powers have all of sudden changed significantly from what's been established before. Sure, her telepathy could possibly be used to mind-control people (even though we haven't seen her do that before), but having the power to instanteously change matter on an atomic level isn't something she's ever even been hinted of possessing.

I'm not sure how 'in control' Wanda is at the moment, though - we've seen her tell sword/shield/whoever it is outside the hex to buzz off, we've seen her expand the hex, but we've also seen her look a bit perplexed when quizzed about how she's running the simulation, right?

Indeed. In episode 5 she tells Vision (with a seemingly honest tone) that she doesn't control everything and everyone in Westview, and in episode 6 she confesses to Pietro she doesn't even remember how she ended up there. And when she goes outside the simulation to face the SWORD soldiers, she only uses her regular telekinesis and telepathy - no reality-altering powers shown there.

btw fyi

https://my90stv.com/

As for Monica's mysterious "aerospace engineer" friend, I think it's gonna be Talos, the head Skrull from Captain Marvel. Monica probably knows him because of her connection to Carol Danvers, and the post-credits scene in Far from Home showed that Nick Fury is in space (possibly on a SWORD related mission?) while Talos is subbing for him on Earth.

Makes sense, and a Secret Invasion series is in the works, with Talos and Nick Fury as buddy cops-ish.

Though if Talos were actually off planet, too, maybe that would explain why he's taking so long to show up. A la Captain Marvel in Endgame.

The events of the series seem to take place over a few days only, so I don't think it's taking him particularly long to show up. Especially if he needs to come up with some special gear to infiltrate the simulation.

Yeah I think maybe 48-60 hours total has passed over the course of the series so far?

I think they said the anomaly has been happening for a week or so though, right? Or is that just when Vision's body was stolen? We've just seen three or four days ourselves so far, for sure, but it seems like a pretty strange, serious situation, which is why I thought it odd that her friend should take even a few days to show up. Unless he's walking, I guess.

It's been at most 24 hours since Monica said she knew someone who could help.

I thought each episode was more or less a day, as far as we know? Anyway, I'm a little spoiled by the MCU's hop on a plane/spaceship/whatever and be there almost immediately pace.

a) I don't think we have any idea how time works inside/outside? There appear to be at least some more episodes than the ones we're seeing - Darcy and Jimmy spotted 'Geraldine' in a black & white episode that we haven't seen before.
b) Even giving that, Monica said "I might know someone who could help" in Episode 5, and "My guy will be here in an hour" in Episode 6.
c) Talos is also impersonating Nick Fury, so he's probably pretty busy (in fairness you might not have known this, I didn't until this morning)

Darcy and Jimmy spotted 'Geraldine' in a black & white episode that we haven't seen before.

No, we also definitely saw Geraldine in the audience at the B/W magic show episode.

Geraldine was running the magic show...? Andrew is talking about the scene where she is sitting on a park bench as a non-speaking character when Darcy and Jimmy spot her for the first time in ep 4.

DJP otm

Geraldine was only in the audience if 'audience' is the special word you use for 'box'

Yeah I was confusing those shots. But I thought there was another shot of her in one of the first two episodes, with her sitting at like a cafe table outdoors? Maybe I'm misremembering.

She was at the poolside ladies' committee meeting where she befriends Wanda. It looked a little like a cafe I guess.

For sure there has been some "previously on WandaVision" stuff we hadn't seen before, or that was slightly different from what we saw before, so ... who knows.

I guess trying to recall details of a episodes from weeks ago is too big of an ask for my brain after 7 rounds of shoveling snow in 24 hours, forgive me.

On the plus side, you're probably about halfway done your shoveling by now.

About 2/3rds it looks like.

think u need a Vision to help

Wanda could just move it to my neighbor's yard for me, I think.

https://preview.redd.it/b3pd8pv29pd21.jpg?auto=webp&s=6606d7e5c357d4a0ad17da193a5276292df0f126

I just learned, via YouTube Music (which knows I’m a Frozen nerd), that each of the “sitcom theme songs” in this show are by Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez! (and the score is by Christophe Beck(!)—tho he’s done a ton of stuff, including the Ant-Man movies).

Anderson-Lopez power! Here’s a song-by-song interview thing with them (Kathleen Hanna sings on the latest one?): https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/wandavision-robert-lopez-kristen-anderson-lopez-theme-songs-music

why ! re Chrispect?

Wau @ Kathleen Hanna

xp He also scored the Frozen movies, so it’s a double-dip.

the lopez's, along with miranda, are the go-to's for the disney industrial complex