Lord of the Rings

I dont think wizard tho. Hes referred to as something quite different iirc

Almost elemental- outside the lots and schemes of the other peoples of ME

Is there much to Tolkein's comment that (paraphrasing) 'every story has a red herring; Tom Bombadil is this story's red herring'?

Hes a very minor part to be a red herring

Sauron otoh....

Sauron basically shat himself in his bunker as soon as things looked bad

on my read-through last year with my kids i came away feeling that bombadil was something like the god, or a god, of middle-earth

Ive not read anything other than whats hinted in the books (ie nothing beyond the silmarillion), and from that i think its an open possibility but not quite suggested by the language gandalf is using

Hes something other

He’s overrated, I’ll tell you that for free.

Shocking Bombadilism

He's in the wrong book is what he is

Always tickles me that in a book about wee hobbits having adventures with elves and dwarves Bombadil is where some of you draw a line

Hobbits and elves serve the plot, bombadil is like a beanstalk out of the story

Seems a clear distinction in type to me, tho why ppl would be actively bothered by it is strange maybe

His presence in the book forces the hobbits to almost die twice, making them look unfit for the task. If he hadn't been shoehorned in, because JRR wanted a green man figure in Middle Earth, the story could have been written so they saved themselves both times, giving their characters more depth from the off. Also I think Bombadil plays a flute? Illegal move, basically.

Tbf I haven’t read LOTR since the first George W Bush term, but I just have very strong memories of thinking “this cunt” almost the entire time.

I have theories about him bridging the tweeness of the Shire and the darkness of the not Shire

i like the way a section of the council of elrond is given over to exactly this discussion: "what was he for? is he part of the plot?" and gandalf saying "uh oh NO!"

tolk has a phrase ( which i forget) for elements in the tale without expanded mythos backstory, which he himself says applies to the blue wizards and to some numenorean sorceress-queen's cats -- but it also (somewhat) applies to the pukelmen and to bombadil and even beorn (tho beorn et al do get dragged into wider plot): viz the troupe arrive at a new level in the house of a new friend or may be foe, which is something that popped into tolk's head as he was writing his way out of the previous chapter's peril, which wasn't prefigured in the underlying version of the mythos, and the mythos then has to be rebuilt round it at some point.

tolk trusting the intrusion of such intuitive as-he-writes happenstance and then backbuilding is mostly not a bad thing! elements that aren't jigsawed tidily into the deeper structures beneath the plot -- and thus seem at an angle to to the plot;s overall tidiness, as they have a reality inependent of his authorial requirements -- are a key element in his world-building: why it can feel solid and even real beyond one person's imagination

so bombadil serves a straightforward structural function -- first post-peril feast&sleep after they leave the shire (AND second lol) -- where this is by definition the WILD and by definition such safe waystations aren't joined up (or it wouldn't be the wild)… and except the backstory is never really rewired round the happenstance (an issue that gandalf never stops thinking about, so it obviously also bothered tolk

i also like that he's a dick! he seriously rescues them twice and is kind and welcoming but SO FULL OF HIMSELF AND HIS SO-CALLED ALT.HIPPIE LIFESTYLE unbeholden to all. i feel that the hobbit response (= "phew we're alive! and safe! this is nice! goldberry is a hottie! i'm actually a bit scared this is sinister and creepy and cultish but i can't in my genuine gratitude say so!") is a good and a complex thing to attempt (they're in the WILD not the SHIRE! different values pertain!) without the attempt fully coming off really

tl;dr bombadil is the edge case of whatever the phrase is for the blue wizards and the numenroean sorceress cats = where its strench becomes a problem (which he fails to solve)

lol strench

= strength

the stench of bombadil

a: weed (skunk)
b: masking that he only ever bathes in the filthy withywindle once in an entire Age

I just think hes ok being an unknown, i mean is he a dick?

Gandalf, iirc, has him down as not present enough in middle earth events to safely deposit the ring with, he hasn't malevolence but on his scale of events this is just petty shit

iirc gandalf says something along the lines of "he might misplace the ring or give it to a squirrel"

one thing i like is that when gandalf leaves the hobbits near the end of the book (before scouring of the shire) his excuse is that he has to go visit bombadil. (sorry hope that isn’t a spoiler?) and yeah, they actually spend time talking about him at the council of elrond. it’s somehow wonderful that the wisest characters in the story take this ridiculous person so seriously.

Yeah, plus the fact that Bombadil and Farmer Maggot are friendly with each other. All of these implications of hidden roots and deceptive appearances.

I dunno if I agree with calling Bombadil a green man archetype. Treebeard is a much more obvious example, for one thing, and I think Tolkien was aiming for something different and more abstract with Bombadil. He's not meant to logically fit.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but I always liked Oldest and Fatherless: The Terrible Secret of Tom Bombadil

That’s great, Andrew. Never read that before. Truly chilling final line.

Ok, that essay is hilarious

three chapters into Return of the King
such a great sequence, Tolkien is so GOOD with impending doom, all that dread & anticipation of the coming battle is so heavy

although this part: Arwen makes Aragorn a standard that he carries to the Path Of The Dead: so obv me thinks its going to be v exciting

BEHOLD MY STANDARD

(unfurls)

...

ok cool its a **black unremarkable standard** great thanks for that, it’s a real winner

arwen is totally a goth

Give it time, VG, give it time...but yes, totally a goth.

Is this the banner that's a magic eye picture under a blacklight oh shit I've said too much.

Best viewed when having smart drinks.

mid-70s paperback slipcase set, same covers as my childhood one, ordered and taking its time getting here. Revving up by reading the Tom Shippey Author of the Century book

Anyway while we're on the subject

https://daily.bandcamp.com/lists/lord-of-the-rings-albums-list

Also for everyone but maybe especially for those finishing a read/reread, I thought this was very lovely.

I recently read the unpublished epilogue to Lord of the Rings, a chapter framed as a conversation between Sam Gamgee and his daughter. It is really beautiful and bittersweet so I illustrated it! You can read it as a scroll here: https://t.co/wxiWXacLbR
1/7 pic.twitter.com/S5L3PE0pqH

— Molly Knox Ostertag (on hiatus) (@MollyOstertag) February 16, 2021

Excellent.

started a re-read recently. Had forgotten the exquisitive pettiness of Bilbo's pass-agg leaving gifts for the locals. Here's a bookshelf for all the books you stole from me, motherfucker

The main thing that stuck out from me from the appendices on my first readthrough at 14 was the headfuck of T saying "by the way, all those names I called the characters were just English approximations of their Westron names. Sméagol was actually called Trahald. Frodo's real name is Maura Labingi. Fuck you."

Maura Labingi, Assistant Director of Human Resources, Whole Foods, Austin TX, join LinkedIn to view this complete profile

Xp lol yeah thats some sidestep to just drop in

Don't forget his faithful companion Banazir, Ban for short.

"We hates the Labingi!"

Small brain: Sauron is the principal antagonist in Tolkien's work
Medium brain: Morgoth is the principal antagonist in Tolkien's work
Galaxy brain: Lobelia Sackville-Baggins is the principal antagonist in Tolkien's work

"i know it was you otho, and it breaks my heart"

re: smeagol/trahald, i wonder if he was still called “gollum”? since that’s just a reference to the weird noise he makes.

only 1 chapter left before my mini-bookclub finishes Return of the King.

I read “The Scouring of the Shire” chapter today and i’m shook! that was so heavy. and the allegory is really not disguised at all, seems like one of the few times in the books where Tolkien is really openly working out his post-war grief.
also after the whirlwind wrapup festival of the previous two chapters, going back to like, full story mode was quite welcome, i was afraid the whole last section of the book would be yadda yadda’d to the end lol

saruman really is a petty cunt though. jfc

Quite so!

And your timing is good with that chapter when it comes to...not this NEW episode of the podcast about to appear but next month.

ooh yay! :D

I normally read about 30-40 books a year, which is utterly impossible now I have a toddler, so instead my plan to read 3-4 very long books instead: Middlemarch, Jonathan Strange, 20 Years After, and... Lord of the Rings, which I've never read.

A question: I loved the early and middle parts of The Hobbit but was kinda bored to tears by the battle at the end (and don't get me started on the awful resolution to Smaug's story). Is there any of the early, funnier Tolkien in LOTR (or something that's different but still interesting)?