I mean at least Jordan Peterson tells you to clean your room, which is useful advice
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:08 (three years ago) link
................ is it though
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:09 (three years ago) link
work book clubs are good when they are marxist reading circles that make the boss nervous
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:11 (three years ago) link
https://preview.redd.it/rfff2qteg3441.jpg?auto=webp&s=e1d5fb55f1cd65a4e187b9c96998c5782efbe3c1
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:12 (three years ago) link
― scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:12 (three years ago) link
Well, he's just saying you could
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:12 (three years ago) link
FWIW, you can get all of the benefit of Jordan Peterson and more with none of the toxicity from books like The Power of Habit
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:13 (three years ago) link
“YOUR BRAIN IS YOUR BITCH”― Jen Sincero, You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life
― jmm, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:13 (three years ago) link
― scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:14 (three years ago) link
it’d be a better use of people’s time examining why they are more willing to hear it from someone peddling conservative Christianity fascism as self-help rather than, idk, their mothers
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:17 (three years ago) link
from what i gather from his defenders, his key point is that people need to accept the fact that life is painful and that the only way out of the bind is by accepting responsibility, making your life into something meaningful. this is not bad advice at all and for some readers it might seem like an important corrective to most self-help, which is often about wish fulfillment/law of attraction. but yeah, it's not like this is a new idea either -- it's ancient, conventional wisdom. instead of peterson, people should read viktor frankl imo
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:20 (three years ago) link
he is (was) a patriarchal father power figure like trump that's the whole of his appeal
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:20 (three years ago) link
the self-help seems like a trojan horse for the politics, which don't actually follow from his premises at all.
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:21 (three years ago) link
well, they do, because it's all individualistic bs
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:21 (three years ago) link
this all reminds me of when a (male) scam artist CEO I used to work for walked into an all hands meeting and strongly suggested we all read something called Girl, Wash Your Face
― stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:22 (three years ago) link
― treeship., Monday, February 8, 2021 8:11 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i know you're probably just expressing a hypothetical but if you have actually had this experience please share lol
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:23 (three years ago) link
brb populating all my linkedin info with marxist references
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:24 (three years ago) link
the self-help seems like a trojan horse for the politics
I actually disagree, I think the politics are a Trojan horse for extremely normie mainstream self-help stuff, conveying it to an audience predisposed to think that's girly shit
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:25 (three years ago) link
But I also think the politics are sincerely held by JP and are very bad!
as far as I can tell his 15 minutes started with the politics. that's what attracted his shithead fans in the first place
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:27 (three years ago) link
this isn't the thread for it i am increasingly convinced that "success in life / work" or whatever is defined by how much you can be the exact opposite of the kind of psycho described in these books.
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:27 (three years ago) link
_the self-help seems like a trojan horse for the politics_I actually disagree, I think the politics are a Trojan horse for extremely normie mainstream self-help stuff, conveying it to an audience predisposed to think that's girly shit
― scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:28 (three years ago) link
when people say they've benefited from reading him, they're talking about his stuff about embracing responsibility and personal. they're not talking about the hysterical reactionary jeremiads, ya know. he gets attention from the politics, but then he hooks people with the self-help, and then these are the people who are actually convinced of the politics
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:28 (three years ago) link
stop making excuses for fascists
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:28 (three years ago) link
If you’re selling it that way, misogyny is part of the package. Not sure how else to convey this. It’s no mystery why he has the audience he does.
two trojan horses, working hand in hand -- hoof in hoof -- at regular intervals, this is what i am envisioning
he's a fascist who attracts kiddie fascists with fascism it's literally that simple
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:29 (three years ago) link
when people say they've benefited from reading him they're beyond help, self or otherwise
― Mommas, don't let your scampoes grow up to be bacon fries (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:31 (three years ago) link
misogyny is a huge part of his package, of course. he associates "chaos" with "the feminine." but you wouldn't need to do that to accept the main thing his defenders say they like about him, which is that he taught them to reject fantasy and embrace the everyday struggles that constitute an actual human life. the latter point can be made on its own, and has, by other, better people. and it's a little different than what you get in most self-help.
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:31 (three years ago) link
none of this is about excuses
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:32 (three years ago) link
all self-help books are reactionary
― Mommas, don't let your scampoes grow up to be bacon fries (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:32 (three years ago) link
in a grand sense, maybe
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:33 (three years ago) link
jeez i was joking about the room stuff
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:39 (three years ago) link
my god
you were joking in a grand sense, maybe
― treeship., Monday, 8 February 2021 20:40 (three years ago) link
i used to live near cathy newman and saw her quite a bit in a nearby restaurant
― plax (ico), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:41 (three years ago) link
sadly treesh i don't think i've done anything in the grand sense my whole life :/
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:44 (three years ago) link
xps this becomes about excuses when we have to constantly remind everyone how these people are lost and hurting and attracted to banal and relatable things as well as misogyny and white supremacy. like who cares. we had too much of this in 2015-17 already. misplaced empathy
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:44 (three years ago) link
chaos rules and thankfully it has no gender.
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:49 (three years ago) link
chaos is queer
― Left, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:52 (three years ago) link
when people say they've benefited from reading him, they're talking about his stuff about embracing responsibility and personal.
They might claim this, but the real reason is the exact opposite. People like him because he gives them someone to blame their problems on like women, leftists, environmentalists, trans people, whoever. He claims to preach a message of responsibility but everything he actually says is the exact opposite, it's all about denying your personal failings and bitterness and pinning it on someone else. That's why he's so popular.
― mirostones, Monday, 8 February 2021 20:58 (three years ago) link
from what i gather from his defenders, his key point is that people need to accept the fact that life is painful and that the only way out of the bind is by accepting responsibility, making your life into something meaningful.
Well, they're halfway there, anyway. Now they need to read Schopenhauer and realize that life is pain and there is no way out of the bind, that life will never be anything but misery.
misplaced empathy
This is treeship's entire role on ILX.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 8 February 2021 20:58 (three years ago) link
life is painclean your room
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 8 February 2021 21:02 (three years ago) link
life was often painful for me before I discovered germoloids suppositories, much more useful than JP!
― calzino, Monday, 8 February 2021 21:04 (three years ago) link
clean your moon
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 21:06 (three years ago) link
"disinfect and dust your environs so you stay healthy" is much more useful advice than "clean your room" imo
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 21:08 (three years ago) link
People like him because he gives them someone to blame their problems on like women, leftists, environmentalists, trans people, whoever.
― scampless, rattled and puce (gyac), Monday, 8 February 2021 21:35 (three years ago) link
do his self-help books actually contain any of the politics though?
― Dusty Benelux (jim in vancouver), Monday, 8 February 2021 21:41 (three years ago) link
like is like "clean your room. don't use they/them pronouns if asked"
?