Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

hard disagree. experiencing the mystery is the main driver, not necessarily that all the pieces will fit together properly. of course, it will be MUCH more satisfying if they do, thematically - but if they don't, that can be judged at the end

Why does this have to be an either/or situation? Why can't the show be about Wanda hiding from her grief and fears in a bubble of unreality that forces outside the bubble are attempting to contain/pierce due to its affect on the outside world?

I dunno, feels like that guy is only just reading the very surface level of plot development without thinking about the subtext, which (I think) has already given us plenty to chew on. Take this quote from him:

Mysteries are actually very clear situations with a driving central question that is also clear (usually who killed X or something). They investigate. New information comes to light and changes the scope of the understanding. And then, in the end, you have utter clarity of the driving questions at the start

* The first episode sets up the mystery and the central questions: why are Wanda and Vision living inside a sitcom, and how is Vision alive again? The ending of the episode reveals that there are some glitches in the sitcom world, i.e. it doesn't fully function as whoever created it wanted it to function.

* The second episode reveals that Wanda is on some level aware of the simulation, but doesn't want it to end, so when something bad/creepy happens, she can alter the events. This strongly hints that the simulation was created so that she and Vision could have the sort of happy, domestic Hollywood love story they didn't have in the actual world. That larger plot is also neatly reflected in the inner plot of the sitcom story, where Wanda uses powers so that the "freak" nature of her and Vision isn't revealed to the inhabitants of Westview, thus upholding the status quo of the sitcom. We also find out that some outside forces are trying to break in to the simulation, possibly to help Wanda.

* In the third episode, again the inner sitcom plot reflects on the traumas and fears of Wanda (and possibly Vision) too, as I outlined in my post above, further explaining why Wanda wants to stay within the simulation, even if she (at least on some level) knows it's fake. We also learn that at least some of the inhabitants are aware of the nature of their simulated lives, and that the simulation exists in physical space, so it can be infiltrated, and there are competing groups of people trying to do that.

So yeah, I really don't feel like this is the sort of mystery show where everything is revealed with a big twist, because we've already learned a lot about both the outer workings of the simulation and the inner workings of the characters inside it. Admittedly it's happening quite slowly, but I don't mind, IMO the sitcom pastiche is very well done and often funny in itself, so it doesn't feel like only the non-sitcom bits "are the show".

(xxpost)

Mostly I'm impressed with how well they are pastiching the source material

comfortable setting for Wanda to experience the sort of life she would want to have

Though if you think about it, why would the ideal imagined by an Eastern European millennial raised at least partly in captivity be a series of classic American sitcom tropes?

Yeah I don’t buy that; there’s a clear feminist undertone cutting through the story that suggests Vizh as well meaning but lost and Wanda as somewhere between subjugated brainwashed and self-deluding.

They show American sitcoms on European TV too, I used to watch reruns of I Love Lucy and The Munsters when I was a kid. Maybe they were exactly the sort of escapist entertainment she loved in wartime Sokovia?

So assuming this is the overall rolling thread -- Thor: Love and Thunder is under way

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKf4dEGJDNG/

And that's a pretty good message there from the Odinsson

Episode 4 of WandaVision continues to successfully hold my interest in this show and answers a lot of “what is going on” questions.

looking forward to watching it tonight

This was a bonus to taking a sick day

Excited to watch it tonight, for sure.

Fun episode

Very good. Answers some stuff, raises a couple of big questions.

Yeah we’re into it!

I wouldnt have got a few bits of what was going on if my partner hadnt explained some stuff from Avengers which I havent seen. Enjoyed it!

Definitely keeping it going — and smart not to have it be a ‘spilt’ episode between the style of the last three and the outside world, key bits at the end aside. Also a great way to loop in a lot of second level MCU characters!

Also, best film use of a certain song since _Withnail and I_

yeah great ep all round

i love kat dennings & praise her showing up in this like a cool best friend you havent seen in years

I wouldnt have got a few bits of what was going on if my partner hadnt explained some stuff from Avengers which I havent seen

I was very annoyed that there wasn't any 1980s sitcom stuff at all, and had to spend half the ep wiki-ing things

yeah i'm interested in resolutely straight faced sitcom pastiche with eerie elements, Agents of SWORD is boring

also whats up with "RAM-bo" vs "ram-BEAU"

I assumed it would transition more into continuity nerd stuff as it went along, but assumed we’d at least cover the 20th century before an all-real-world episode

I was very annoyed that there wasn't any 1980s sitcom stuff at all, and had to spend half the ep wiki-ing things

I, too, was a little distracted to constantly hear her name pronounced Rambo. But whatevs.

Apparently there are leaks of the next or future episodes out there? Just because someone has to ruin the fun. Anyway, careful out there on the internet, it is full of information!

Remind me - did we actually get to see anyone snapped back into existence in Endgame? Feel like they just showed up for the big battle scene and this is the first time I can think that we see it happen.

Yeah, Dr. Strange teleported the resurrect-ees onto an empty battlefield just after they were resurrected so we never witnessed their actual reintegration.

the second holland spider man dealt a bit with the implications of people phasing back into existence

I just watched the first four… you guys are going great guns on this shit! I'll only add that, as a amateur scholar of John Byrne (I have been on and off obsessed with the cultish control he has on his drones via John Byrne Forum) that it is clear to me that he retconned the provenance of Thomas and William —that they were always fragments of also ran villain Master Pandemonium and never actual children— not, as he claimed, because Vision is a android and should not be able to reproduce, but because he disliked Steve Engelhart, the writer of the Vision and Scarlet Witch maxi-series wherein the twins were introduced. There can be little doubt that many if not all of the retcons that he initiated during his peak years as the dominant creator in superhero comics were motivated by his personal animus towards other creators.

signed, former neighbor of forks who ain't been in the neighborhood in a year, misses Kensington/Ditmas Park and wonder what it has been like, and enjoyed the company of Forks very much

maybe the "Rambo" pronunciation was the one nod to the 1980s

Gonna tell my grandkids this is Mulder and Scully pic.twitter.com/XPcCDeD8E1

— Ziggy (@mrjafri) January 30, 2021

OTM total X-Files vibe (which I assume was 100% studied and intentional)

?

https://i.imgur.com/t83cUQN.jpg

yeah i'm interested in resolutely straight faced sitcom pastiche with eerie elements, Agents of SWORD is boring

This is exactly how I expected to feel and I've been braced for disappointment when this show got more "normal" but to my great surprise I liked this ep a lot! I have just plain started to feel there's a trustworthy hand on the tiller here.

ditto. seemed like too drastic of a change (i love the first 3 eps) but i appreciate the fact they didn’t drag the “who’s doing it to you wanda!?” aspect out for the rest of the season, because now there can be more interaction between the sitcom stuff and the outside world (as evidenced by the ep5 preview).

it’d be interesting if it became two way and wanda started influencing the world just outside of the bubble in the same manner making it even more x-files etc like.

There are a hundred different intriguing ways it could go short of contradicting the rest of the MCU.

I saw a comment somewhere that asked basically, they know Wanda is there, they know who Vision is, why didn't they contact the Avengers? But after Endgame there kind of aren't any terrestrial Avengers. Iron Man is dead, Black widow is dead, Captain America is gone, Hawkeye one presumes is spending time at the farm, Falcon and Winter soldier are off shooting their show, etc. I guess they could ... call Hulk?

Doesnt this pretty clearly take place between endgame and the big parts of endgame 2? They show the blip and MR going to work for shield and her first assignment being the wandavision world

AFAIC it's after Endgame, before Spider-Man: Far From Home

Yeah it's not the Blip itself being shown at the start, it's the reverse of it! Basically that first scene is happening right at the same time Thanos launches his attack on the Avengers HQ leading directly into the final battle. Then the rest of it is some time later.

liked this a lot! The fourth episode was the right moment for a change of pace - as enjoyable as the sitcom+eerie bits format was, it was getting a little stale for me.

v happy to see they brought Kat Dennings (I've only seen the second Thor once but the part where she goes "meow meow!" is burned into my brain) and Randall Park back for this too.

The one Avenger they should be calling is Dr. Strange, but I have a feeling whatever happens on this show will have something to do with his movie anyway.

Yeah, won't be surprised if he appears at the end of this show, especially if they formally tie Wanda's powers to MCU Magic.

Another bit - besides Debra Jo Rupp, love that they likely cast Dennings and Park as major characters in this because they both lead sitcoms.

As mentioned upthread, Wanda will be in the next Dr. Strange movie, so a cameo isn't out of the question.

Yeah, this is a good direction for the show to go in now. No real surprises for anyone who has been reading the comics and watching the movies for decades but super well executed.

I only wish they could've found a way to weave the narratives more evenly and not do three episodes of sitcoms and then one X-Files... but I can cope. Getting real Arrival vibes from the base camp sequences!

signed, former neighbor of forks who ain't been in the neighborhood in a year, misses Kensington/Ditmas Park and wonder what it has been like, and enjoyed the company of Forks very much

I was just reminded that this is officially a limited series, and for that reason perhaps maybe designed *not* to answer questions and more made to *introduce* questions that might be answered in "Dr. Strange 2" and maybe the next "Spider-Man." I actually don't mind the idea of them using the TV shows this way, it sort of reminds me of the way limited series' work in comics, not so much stand-alone and more a narrative bridge to introduce new ideas/themes/costumes. Certainly it would help Disney control its broader (er) vision, in that they won't have to worry about the shows stepping on story toes. In fact, limited series like this might solve some movie problems in the process but negating some need for huge exposition drops. Like, the way they introduced Spider-man in Civil War, for example. Just skipped the origin story entirely and simply introduced him in another movie.

it sort of reminds me of the way limited series' work in comics, not so much stand-alone and more a narrative bridge to introduce new ideas/themes/costumes.

perhaps 0.00000000184% of limited series in comics history have been designed for this purpose

That's fine, I'm not a comics dude. But it's what I remember from when I was a kid.

limited series' raison d'etre is to tell a standalone story; the narrative shifting etc is done to make them matter

this is literally the first MCU thing i've ever seen, and i'm enjoying it

really hoping that the resolution doesn't require knowledge of two decades of movies/series/comics. and that kat dennings' character becomes bearable

Just seconds before we pushed play on episode 4 Friday night, my wife turns to us and says, “you guys might need to carry on with this without me, might be the first Marvel thing that makes me tap out, I’m not feeling it”.

As soon as the credits kicked in she goes, “well, dammit, I’m all in now”.

I’m guessing at least 30% of that comes from her fondness for Kat Dennings, but I think she enjoyed the loose ends being tied up.

Have faith in the Feige!

There are plenty of valid gripes about the MCU, to be certain, but the long term vision and deftly bringing a full universe to life and intertwining even the more minor characters is fun to watch.

(Overly earned corny fuxxor statement ahead alert)

Watching the loose threads come together and seeing the links reminds me of why I fell in love with comics when I was a kid - beyond the stories of good versus evil and stronger than life heroes, it was the slow piecing together of an entire universe that only revealed itself in bits and pieces that appealed to me. I love that MCU has emphasized this thread and it’s why the DCEU leaves me cold.

Now, if they could just get Quasar into the MCU (second series, after the Avengers, that I subscribed to).