Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

She and Quicksilver were mutants and Magneto's kids for most of the time they've been around. Now they're the product of the High Evolutionary's experiments (akin to being the product of Strucker's experiments in the MCU) and no longer Magneto's kids. I expect they'll kick the dirt over that stupid retcon eventually.

A new report says that Black Widow will only get a Disney+ release if all other options have failed

Sounds dire! We're rooting for you, Black Widow, for the sake of humanity.

it's coming out on DivX

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BN2EyMDIyYWItNWI0MC00ODZmLWJlYTAtNDhmOTU0YWZmNWJlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTA0MjU0Ng@@._V1_.jpg

This latest episode was really good. I only saw one or two episodes of "Legion" (which people ... liked?) but this seems to have similar vibes. Still no idea what's going on at all.

I'm liking WandaVision the more it plays the cards it has but it's still moving a bit slower - mostly, again, in the name of showing off its considerable style (dig that stork! love the brady stairs!) - than I would prefer. Still worth the time investment. I'm buying into the theory of the mustachioed guy being Nightmare and his wife as Clea but I never saw the Doc Strange movie (which is odd as I have some real fondness for the many incarnations of the character), so i dunno if the film precludes those characters from appearing.
Anyways, we got 80's sitcoms up next. Cosby?

i don't think anyone is touching the cosby show with a 500 foot poll for the next zillion years

all the 80s / 90's TGIF shows were ABC which means disney owns them*, seems possible if they're sticking to family stuff

* (probably? no idea how rights from that era transfer from individual studios tbh)

well this is pastiche so whatever they go with it's not going to be a direct copy of anything. but i could see cosby couch/stair/door set up being part of the layout. what are other likely 80's sitcoms they could emphasize? Family Ties?
oh shit, they're gonna do ALF aren't they

oh fuck Family Ties yesss
that house was so good

sha la la la

married... with children obv

I think of Married with Children as the true couch/stair/door (but only because it was on TV more)

There's definitely a division on my friends feeds between "This is awesome" and "The weird stuff is good, but when are they going to ditch the sitcom elements?" I'm curious as to whether the latter will soften when they get to Friends-era.

Well, the end of this ep was the longest they've gone breaking character, right? I assume it will speed up from here.

I don't know enough about comics to know who Nightmare or Clea is, but it's telling that Kathryn Hahn's husband has remained unseen for three episodes. They could be making him like one of the infamous invisible sitcom spouses, but there are rumors abounding that he could be the/a Big Bad. Certainly Hahn has pretty high billing for not playing a big role so far, so who knows. Teyonah Parris one assumes will re-enter the story, given who her character apparently is, having just looked at the wiki to see how to spell her name. In fact, I saw a couple of other (small) names that have appeared in other MCU shows on deck for this one. (Plus, weren't there rumors of a Dr. Strange cameo?) Then again, all these characters could just be easter eggs for comics fans, priming them for future MCU appearances, but one of the pleasures of this show so far is I have no idea!

Just looking some more, S.W.O.R.D. was allegedly going to show up earlier in the MCU, as early as Thor, but S.W.O.R.D. was owned by Fox. Likewise, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which was on ABC, apparently wanted to incorporate S.W.O.R.D., maybe in the series finale, but were reportedly refused permission by Marvel Studios. And I guess there was supposedly a S.W.O.R.D. reference at the end of the last Spider-man? I find it kind of fascinating, given how consistent the MCU has been, that they could not only juggle all these characters and storylines but also (as we've half-surmised) *potential* characters and storylines that might become available (after buying Fox, or working stuff out with Sony, say). Add in not just the green lighting of Disney+ and one presumes the absorption of those other Marvel Netflix characters, plus factor in the massive premiere and production delays of the movies, and there are suddenly even more moving parts. There must be some Disney vault with piles of different timelines and crossover ideas and new characters and other contingencies ready to be put into play.

I just want to say more clearly that whatever the deeper plot machinations Olson and Bettany are ABSOLUTELY perfect throughout this thing so far; chemistry for days and embracing the ridiculous conventions while still selling the 'off'/unsettled moments.

I think it definitely helps that they (but particularly she) are good dramatic actors, so that when they shift from exaggerated sitcom acting to realistic acting the effect is very, well, effective.

yeah, that's otm.
again, my issue is that i'm just not interested in watching tiresome sitcom tropes even when they're done winkingly and the first hour and a half of this program has been 80%+ tiresome sitcom tropes... filmed lovingly and cleverly, but still tiresome! get to the meat!
increasingly, i think the structure here just isn't for me. Even so, I don't begrudge the risk and I expect future episodes to be closer to 50% meat and 50% pastiche which is where I'm likely to get more into it.

it's telling that Kathryn Hahn's husband has remained unseen for three episodes.

filmed lovingly and cleverly

A small, very sharp touch has been how the camera angles have slowly started to shift at various points to be utterly unlike typical angles/framing from the era that they're replicating, often at moments of particular emotional stress. The first episode was almost totally on point for the early sixties though notably there were a few moments at the breakfast-dinner where that changed. In this most recent episode there were a lot more of those, like with the edit/glitch moment for Vision and especially during the birth scenes.

xpost Yeah, that's one theory. I think I saw a link to this:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/22/22243271/wandavision-episode-3-recap-explainer-mephisto-agatha-harkness-tommy-billy-sword

Huh, should that link be hidden? I don't think it counts as a spoiler, since it's total guess work and doesn't give away anything we've seen on the show so far, or even that we necessarily expect to see.

This potential Big Bad also has a lot of connections to Dr. Doom, who is perhaps the best known Big Bad as yet absent the MCU, but whom I assume is teed up somewhere along with the Fantastic Four. I still think they should release a stand alone Dr. Doom movie.

Incidentally, I think I saw someone note elsewhere that June 2, the circled day of the boss coming over for dinner in the first episode, just happens to be the date of the first Salem witch trial.

I think reading a bunch of Q material over the week has lowered my appetite for that sort of "but this is connected to that via this obvious clue!" stuff

Still, some people going deep, and the show is definitely going nuts with easter eggs that, sure, may be there just for fun, but may add up to more. For example, I saw a Den of Geek discussion of this still:

https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/wandavision_house_of_m_wine.jpg

As Wanda used her sitcom witch powers to set the table, she poured a bottle of wine called Maison Du Mepris. This is a very clever Easter egg, as it translates to “House of Contempt.” There’s also an M on the neck of the bottle, suggesting we look at the product as, “House of M.” In other words, they’re subtly telling us to look at Wanda Maximoff’s far-from-finest hour from the comics, a story called (you guessed it) House of M.

That reminds me, I love all the ads -- especially now that it seems clear Hydra finances its plans via common household products.

(And the 'Coy' instead of 'Joy' detergent in the kitchen.)

There's definitely a division on my friends feeds between "This is awesome" and "The weird stuff is good, but when are they going to ditch the sitcom elements?"

I'm all the way over to "I hope it just stays like this and they don't turn it into a Marvel property where people fight each other with superpowers" --- I would love for it just to be purely a modestly surreal/symbolic psychological piece on the Wanda-Viz relationship as it has been so far, but I think I probably won't get that

I think the show is also (at least currently) ingeniously low budget compared to, say, The Mandalorian.

Maybe comic nerds can help me out here, but the movies have only showed Scarlet Witch's powers as being more or less telekinetic, right? No reality bending stuff? It seems weird to me that they would suddenly introduce radically new super powers just for the show, with no foundation. But ... who knows!

xpost Yeah, kinda the same way I would have been fine with a Mandalorian that was just him and Grogu just wandering the universe doing things. Can't last forever but I'll enjoy what I've got in the meantime!

I think the show is also (at least currently) ingeniously low budget compared to, say, The Mandalorian.

Well it does help that the set designs alone are simpler!

lol at that House of M easter egg, nice touch

i think the telekinesis stuff is a nod (and blink and nose twitch) to Bewitched and Dream of Jeannie

can i just say Kathryn Hahn is just painfully hot all the time
http://i.imgur.com/asUL6SW.png

the knottiness and endless rebooting of the marvel universe lends itself well to this kind of red herring baiting... to be honest, the "oh you think you know what's going on fanboy?" approach of the storytelling is among its most winning qualities, especially given that i think it functions without interrupting the base arc

ned, to your point, i think they also change film quality in the "breaks from fake reality" angles as well?

Maybe comic nerds can help me out here, but the movies have only showed Scarlet Witch's powers as being more or less telekinetic, right? No reality bending stuff?

She turned plastic butterflies into real butterflies (though this experience may not have been "real").

I think I saw someone note elsewhere that June 2, the circled day of the boss coming over for dinner in the first episode

The date of the boss' dinner was 23rd August. People who are not me have speculated this is a reference to Avengers #238 where Vision effectively comes back to life having been shut down by Annihilus in #233.

Sorry, it was actually a line from Agnes!

"Lucky gal, the only way Ralph would remember our anniversary is if there was a beer named June 2nd."

xpost She does that in the show, but she's never done anything like that in any of the movies she's been in, right?

Going with the idea of dates referring to Avengers issues, June 2nd can give us #26.

Captain America shows everyone the new system for recieving secret messages, but Hawkeye doesn't pay attention. Hawkeye returns to the mansion and tries to check his messages but can't remember how to work it. He decides to use one of Tony Stark's inventions: the "subliminal recall inducer" to remember.

Maybe comic nerds can help me out here, but the movies have only showed Scarlet Witch's powers as being more or less telekinetic, right? No reality bending stuff? It seems weird to me that they would suddenly introduce radically new super powers just for the show, with no foundation.

Which would explain the kind of general unease the neighbors have around her. But how to explain the presence of Vision at all, then?

There was a glimpse in the teasers that sorta explains it regarding the Mind Gem, but I guess we'll see how that pans out

It's worth noting that even though everyone in The Infinity War assumed the Vision would die if the Mind Stone was ripped off of his head, we can't be sure the damage really was beyond repair. We don't see a burial for him in Endgame, so maybe his body was kept somewhere in the hope that one day he might be brought back to life? So maybe someone has managed to do that, except that for some reason he can only exist in this weird simulation? And Wanda has decided to stay there with him cos it's the only place where they can be together?

So Im enjoying Wandavision but it sounds like coming at it with no MCU knowledge is rendering it a bit lesser? I mean I dont know/care, but apparently Im missing multitudes, which is a bit irritating.

I'm assuming it's more the other way around, and I get to just enjoy the vibe rather than furiously scrying the runes for Easter eggs.

Good point!

Yeah, seriously, I have watched about half the MCU movies, remember nothing about them (e.g. apparently Vision died in one of the movies I saw but I can't say I remember that, there were like a hundred characters and a lot of stuff was going on) and I am enjoying WandaVision a lot, much more than I have enjoyed any but two or three of the movies, for what matter. It's really good they're trying something different.

another vote for ignorance being bliss here; i think the creators are definitely jerking me around by my nerd leash

I highly doubt the show (or the MCU in general) will go as deep and convoluted as the comics, especially with so little real set up of, say, characters like Wanda and Vision, but who knows. I have a casual understanding of some comics stuff from decades ago, but I'm still enjoying this, as I've enjoyed virtually all the movies. The only time a complete lack of knowledge has hampered me was Agents of SHIELD, which just wasn't doing it for me. And maybe Legion, though I only saw one or two of those episodes.

Legion I loved with no backstory knowledge but I will say I did some reading up on the general gist of his story there. Not that I think it followed the comics that closely anyway?

I think I agreed most with film crit hulk's take on this show - am greatly enjoying Olsen/Bettany's performances but the mystery-box framing is very tiresome and doesn't allow you to fully engage with either the characters or the sitcom settings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/46555836

Someone in the comments mentioned The Good Place as a comparison and I think I would've liked it more if the show had been structured similarly, where the sitcom plots themselves play a role in teaching Wanda to accept/discover reality and face whatever it is she's running from. Right now, it all just seems like elaborate window dressing for the weird bits/main mystery arc and it's hard to say whether it will end up meaning anything more than that once the walls (so to speak) come down.