Buffy

there are skippable episodes in 4

i do not think there are any skippable episodes in 5 which would be my fav season after 2 but i get why ppl have issues

The trick that worked for me was to skip everything in season two before "Anne", the first episode of season three. Maybe some flash cards to summarize them.

but i think my recommendation is right; season 2 is golden once angel turns evil. you maybe lose a ripper backstory episode but i don't think that's gonna dull the impact of "passion"

xpost Wait, you skipped everything in season two?

I personally love the Dawn stuff.

xp wouldn't that lose impact if you haven't watched the various Angel episodes?
(Speaking of Angel, now THAT's a tough sell to start, though ultimately maybe more consistent that Buffy overall!)

xp josh agreed - Dawn is such a ridiculous conceit at first and then it works

I've never seen Angel!

I've caught up sporadically, but I've never really felt that I was missing anything? Oh No Angel / Angelus never seemed the best of Buffy (I may have been affected by the fact that the it's definitely not the best of seasons 3 onwards)

the biggest obstacle to modern eyes is the first season, imo, which really didn’t master the tone that would make it one of the best-ever shows until the final two episodes. i’d say for season 1, show the 2-part pilot, the episode called “angel,” and then skip to the episode with the nightmare kid thru the finale

iirc angel (the show) has a v uneven season one, a great seasons 2-3, a fascinatingly messy season 4, and the fifth season is the best one

angel's role on buffy by nature has to be somber and serious tortured weirdo, on the show he is allowed to be goofy and it rules

on the angel show*

angel was great, I think season 4 might be my favorite due to sheer hallucinatory weirdness

tho yeah, season 5 leaned into the tragedy and humor in equal measure.

good show!

I think the first season finale of Buffy is a great episode of television and it would be a pity to miss it. But then I also don't think the first season is that bad; it just has a bunch of dud episodes in the middle. I would just suggest skipping #4, #5, #6 and #8, and then you've got a compact little Season 1 with an excellent finale.

Angel Season 4 is my fave. I don't really like Angel at all until Season 3; Season 2 has its moments but overall I think it's a show that took a very long time to reach its full potential.

season 4 of angel was one of the best televisual rides i've ever been on so when i refer to it as fascinatingly messy it is with deep affection

also made it impossible for me to take mad men guy seriously when mad men was still on tv, which i cherish

fucked up what happened with cordelia still

the thing that kept me from getting through buffy for like a six month period was how bored out of my skull i was during season one, maybe i'd like it more now

xp totally. charisma got done wrong.

Angel is such a genre stew with so many tone shifts and major cast changes and eventually it works super great, no regrets on that series as a whole. If it went 7 seasons, maybe it would've petered out like Buffy did (and the Angel Season 6 comics were not good)
Season 4 is great but there's SO much lore and backstory leading up to that (and into the final season) from previous seasons

i watched most of Angel/Buffy after their runs; I do wonder if watching Buffy 3/Angel 1 and so on was interesting. but they didn't really connect much, I only remember one or two crossovers

agree about the first season finale of buffy, lily, i think it's one of the best episodes of the show. but i do think it took a minute to get the alchemy right. the first season also feels dated (or of its time) in a way that the rest of the show doesn't really. show got a lot better when xander stopped skateboarding lol

Agree about it being more dated; I rewatched The Puppet Show the other day, and while I do really enjoy that one, there is a lot of sitcommy acting in it, especially from Willow and Xander.

I honestly can't recall if we watched the S1 finale. We might have.

Last time I watched it, S1 was fun mostly *as* a time capsule of a mode of television that feels very distant now. But yeah it's probably best experienced after you've already become a fan and then it's kind of interesting in terms of things like, wow Boreanaz came a looong way as an actor from Buffy S1 to the later Angel seasons.

iirc angel (the show) has a v uneven season one, a great seasons 2-3, a fascinatingly messy season 4, and the fifth season is the best one

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, January 15, 2021 10:33 AM (one hour ago)

this is totally otm, S4 is nuts the first time through when you don't know what is going to happen next, but ime re-watching it makes its flaws super glaring, e.g., Conor is a terribly written character, such a drag and I don't think Kartheiser is to blame based even just on his S5 appearances let alone Mad Men.

Fuck Xander

I should probably rewatch all of this sometime to see if I still stand by my pronouncement (from like 15 years or so ago) of Buffy season 5 as the greatest season of tv ever. I mean I doubt it's held on to the crown after all these years but it's probably still up there.

(And also my declaration of Buffy season 6's year-long depression narrative as the greatest difficult to watch season of tv ever.

nick brendon absolutely nails xander straight out the box in the unaired pilot and the whole of season 1 proper, the rest of the actors take a while to find their characters imo.

spike a terrible character, perfect that he's a utd fan.

angel and the mayor are the only really good buffy villains. the master okay but can't go anywhere. adam = dud (tho i love the s4 post victory finale episode.) glory/ben = yawn. crackwillow! = even more yawns. first evil = wtf i'm not even awake to yawn.

s6 has some good episodes but i'm the kind of rube who needs most of the characters to be likeable in order to love smthg, of course what i consider likeable might not be the same as what others do*, and in s6 they all suck bar tara and anya, and only buffy has a good reason for her suckage.

*i like all the main characters in seinfeld and mark zuckerberg was the only character i liked in social network.

I think you should at least do the first two episodes, Angel and Prophecy Girl from Season 1.

Season 2 - When She Was Bad, School Hard, maybe Halloween, Lie To Me, maybe What’s My Line or at least explain the two slayer thing, Surprise/Innocence, Phases, Passion, Becoming.

Season 3 - easier to say which ones to skip - Dead Mans Party, Amends, Gingerbread, maybe The Zeppo

the zeppo isn't my fav episode, but come on, people should def not skip it

the xander pov when interrupting buffy/angel clinch in zeppo is great, as is oz/xander convo in that episode.

Yeah I definitely wouldn’t, but it seems like the least important plot wise in such a ridiculous season. Personally I would just encourage watching all of it. Even Gingerbread explains Amy the rat.

just watch everything. if you're gonna commit, commit. lesson for the kiddies

I rewatched it all + 3 seasons of Angel in lockdown. It’s still amazing. I can understand cutting out some of Season 2 though, some of it might feel quite dated and hacky, and put someone off before they get to the good stuff. (My major take from rewatching as an adult was how otm season six is about how depressing adulthood is, and that season seven is wellllll better than I remember it. Also season 3 Angel is a slog and I never finished it - sooo much whining about holtz and the baby and seemingly making the plot up episode by episode)

i really like the little exchange in the telepathy/school shooting episode - "Is it just me or is the school newspaper getting kind of dark?" "I dunno, I always just skip to the obits." Probably kind of hard to do a fun show about teenagers these days with the same body count.

Starting in season 2 Angel feels like they're doing mini-reboots of the show several times per season, and it's a toss-up as to whether it'll be compelling or godawful. Though season 4 commits to on-the-fly batshit serialization.

xp That was the one they didn't end up airing because of Columbine, right?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. The only one I can't go with is "make them commit," because there is no way I can get a 16-year old to commit to 20 hours of a show under duress. And besides, she's been great about watching classic movies with me, and if it's a matter of her watching "M" or 2 or 3 "Buffy" eps, "M" wins.

xp yeah i think it got aired after the season ended

I presume that would be Earshot, which is an episode kinda about someone bringing a gun to school to kill everyone

season 6 of buffy is a series of great ideas poorly executed. season 7 is similar but the ideas are bad

i'm guessing i would like season 7 more on rewatch but... imo the other slayers made it unwatchable

also yet another example of a joss whedon show doing one of its best characters dirty (anya)

why doesn't xander die! he sucks

brad completely otm about season 7, especially about anya and *shudder* kennedy. "conversations with dead people" is the only real redeeming quality of that season.

iirc the actress who plays anya specifically requested that ending so she couldn't be brought back

in my mind both show and dialogue have dated badly, and now it's all wrapped up in whedon's apparent toxicity and buryyourgays-ing, but the performances are generally pretty top-notch and fun

dawn is much less of a drag than buffy at the end iirc

i can't imagine this show won't be revived eventually in some non-comics form

Rewatching, the potentials are mostly all fine, some are even interesting, and Buffy is old and tired of her ‘job’ and annoying. She’s Losing My Edge by LCD Soundsystem, or a Karen-in-Middle-Management-Meme

Having not seen an episode in probably a decade, I feel like the thing that might've aged the worst is the fight choreography, which I remember thinking was pretty dodgy back in the day and which is a thing that has largely improved by leaps and bounds in the tv of today.

It's weird how disinclined I am to go back and watch it when you consider what a superfan I was at the time

my excuse is it's a very long show