And Sleepy Joe Will Get The Credit: US Politics January 2021

Old Lunch it's because any future counter-terrorism legislation will inevitably be used against innocent PoC.

I'm not clear on why we shouldn't consider these people domestic terrorists. Just because they didn't successfully kidnap or execute anyone?

― Meat Chew All the Way (Old Lunch), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:06 PM (twenty-nine seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

because it will just lead to an across the board loss of rights and increase in the power of the police state for examples see the last 20 years, also its worth considering if terrorism is any sort of meaningful or useful term

when you've lost Scott Adams

Today would be a good day for Trump to resign.

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) January 8, 2021

no shade on anyone posting these mealy mouthed weasel handwringing Repub quotes, but I really don't wanna hear their hypocritical BS

Saying "this is terrorism" is not the same as saying "I trust the government to handle this correctly"

its half way there

using the word "terrorism" is bad, full stop, use better words

IDGAF if white people get targeted, DJP definitely OTM there, but semantics matter.

I'm open to hearing from the more vehement 'abolish the police' voices re: how to handle this amorphous gaggle of fascists who are probably not done pulling shit like this.

with the fucking military, dude

Is there a better term for what the Klan did in the reconstruction era than terrorism?

Landing on a different vocabulary is not going to cause the government to make better decisions, it just obscures what is happening.

I'm open to hearing from the more vehement 'abolish the police' voices re: how to handle this amorphous gaggle of fascists who are probably not done pulling shit like this.

fwiw terrorism traditionally defined is an act designed to provoke terror, thats why say bombing a crowded market is terrorism its not really a strategic target you do it to make people scared, the people who stormed the capitol were trying to take over the government, more of a standard insurgency, ie not terrorism

fwiw terrorism traditionally defined is an act designed to provoke terror, thats why say bombing a crowded market is terrorism its not really a strategic target you do it to make people scared, the people who stormed the capitol were trying to take over the government, more of a standard insurgency, ie not terrorism

I'm open to hearing from the more vehement 'abolish the police' voices re: how to handle this amorphous gaggle of fascists

step one: don't invite them

it's super fucking disappointing that some of you don't get lagoon's point here

xpost OK whew that's better

Abolishing the police doesn’t mean you can’t investigate and prosecute people who plan or commit heinous acts of violence.

I 100% agree that the "war on terror" has absolutely caused an unending pile of problems in this country and I do not trust our government one bit not to use that definition with terrible intent, but if we can't call infiltrating the Capitol building with the intent of taking hostages and executing some of the highest members of government "terrorism" then I guess words don't mean anything anymore.

Acknowledging an act of terror is not the same as condoning or endorsing a government's use of the word as a cudgel.

Yes, I'm more open to arguments saying this wasn't terrorism precisely vs we should strike the word entirely because it will be abused by politicians.

xp see lagoon's post a few back, this was an attempted coup w/ no intentional targeting of civilians

Is there a better term for what the Klan did in the reconstruction era than terrorism?

― Boring United Methodist Church (Boring, Maryland), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:12 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

the klan were a good example of a terrorist organization for sure, but i dont think its unreasonable to say the term at this point that the term has outlived its usefulness and has just become a talisman for increasing government terror, if liberals want to move things in the direction of their stated values imo what they should be pushing for is a return to traditional investigative lawful policing, trials where people have rights and so forth, and demand that those powers be directed at white supremacists

Anyway that’s kind of disingenuous, “armed protection of the halls of government” is a distinct workload from municipal policing.

IMO we should ask the Secret Service agent who felt it was necessary to clear a round into the mob jumping through the broken window leading into the congressional saferoom if he felt terrified or not.

Been referring to them as terrorists but will switch to insurgents. Good points made here.

I'm open to hearing from the more vehement 'abolish the police' voices re: how to handle this amorphous gaggle of fascists who are probably not done pulling shit like this.

― Meat Chew All the Way (Old Lunch), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:12 PM (nine minutes ago)

abolish them?

being scared doesnt mean terrorism is happening i mean i get scared often about like having enough money to survive... wait a second actually

Idk maybe he felt scared, so they're Scareists. Maybe he felt alarmed, so they're Alarmists.

Thank you, lagoon. The angle from which y'all were coming at this was unclear but now it is more clear.

its half way there

tweeting on a prayer

Violent dipshits also works

being scared doesnt mean terrorism is happening i mean i get scared often about like having enough money to survive... wait a second actually

― lag∞n, Friday, January 8, 2021 9:21 AM (fourteen seconds ago)

@accidentalleft

xp definitely!

being scared doesnt mean terrorism is happening i mean i get scared often about like having enough money to survive... wait a second actually

― lag∞n, Friday, January 8, 2021 10:21 AM (twenty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

just wanted to appreciate this post

I'm open to hearing from the more vehement 'abolish the police' voices re: how to handle this amorphous gaggle of fascists who are probably not done pulling shit like this.

― Meat Chew All the Way (Old Lunch), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:12 PM (nine minutes ago)

Abolish them? Sorry to be flippant, but how is this the time to ask who will protect us from the fascists if we don't have cops?

C'mon, I recognize the points being made, but these dudes were literally bragging about scaring/intimidating Congress into negating the election. That's terrorism to me.

Is there a better term for what the Klan did in the reconstruction era than terrorism?

― Boring United Methodist Church (Boring, Maryland), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:12 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

the klan were a good example of a terrorist organization for sure, but i dont think its unreasonable to say the term at this point that the term has outlived its usefulness and has just become a talisman for increasing government terror, if liberals want to move things in the direction of their stated values imo what they should be pushing for is a return to traditional investigative lawful policing, trials where people have rights and so forth, and demand that those powers be directed at white supremacists

I will refer to them as Not-So-Great White

sorry for weird double post there

Thanks for your patience lagoon.

FTR, when I challenge these arguments my stance is rarely 'I don't agree with what you're saying' but rather 'the words you're using are unclear' or, in terms of procedure, 'how do we make this approach practicable?'

Wednesday’s events show that supporting law enforcement is needed now more than ever.

We must ensure that officers have the tools they need to keep America safe.

— Rep. Jim Jordan (@Jim_Jordan) January 8, 2021

there you go, they need MORE tools

Lotta tools on JJs twitter feed. Prob solved

I've been calling them insurrectionists

Been referring to them as terrorists but will switch to insurgents. Good points made here.

So they were insurgents. How does this change anything with regard to what should be done and what we can expect going forward? Answer: nothing.

Jordan's already a big fucking tool. We don't need more of those.

Abolish them? Sorry to be flippant, but how is this the time to ask who will protect us from the fascists if we don't have cops?

― rob, Friday, January 8, 2021 12:22 PM (eight seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

abolish the police doesnt mean have no law enforcement, i dont think there are too many people who just want to be the victims of crimes with no recourse or protection

so what does it mean to abolish the particular police we have now? for one the police are powerful political actors who have mayors et al in their pockets and are completely above the law feeling free to assault and murder people on camera with no fear of repercussions, AND as we saw this week and have for the past year and forever really that theyre politically aligned with white supremacy, theyre a nasty organization rotten to the core

one part of them being so politically powerful is they dominate local budgets often to the extent of being more than half of discretionary spending! part of what happens when you have all the money is you get responsibility for handling lots of things, the vast majority of work the police do has nothing to do with serious crimes, they respond to mental health emergencies and often kill whoever they find there, they respond to medical emergencies and so forth

so what defund/abolish the police proposes is to split those huge police budgets amongst different government agencies that have specialized skills in dealing with various crises, and taking some of the money and putting it towards more preventative measures to alleviate the vast suffering in this country that often provokes said crises

under this plan there would still be law enforcement but they would be smaller and subject to actual oversight and not directly descended from slave patrols

It would help if a lot of these terms were more clearly defined and compartmentalized, cf. the tendency to call any number of Trump's actions treasonous when most/possibly none of them meet the actual legal definition of treason. I mean 'shitbag' has a nice mouthfeel but it doesn't really help delineate how various instances of shitbaggery should be handled.

You’re preaching to the choir here. I think we’re on the same page thanks.
― Boring United Methodist Church (Boring, Maryland), Friday, January 8, 2021 12:23 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

nice :)

good summary lag∞n

xp what's wrong with "illegal"?