Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

I should think this observation would tend to argue against your contention that when 'the discourse' proposes a position, nobody disagrees with it.

it's that nobody disagrees with it *at the time*; the acceptable-to-agree-with layer just moves forward, until it in turn is replaced

I don't imagine everyone is connected to Twitter all the time or is always free to comment instantaneously. But I'm not on Twitter, so this is a surmise.

neither am I, I actually fell asleep (a common occurrence anymore) and woke up to this, which just makes it even harder to keep up with what the acceptable opinions are

To me, this basically means shit's complicated and people tend to turn against each other during a deadly pandemic and economic crisis, and people on all sides are capable of expressing gross opinions on public platforms. It isn't that basic morality and safety are constantly shifting. It's more that we are living in a sick and frayed society that pits everyone against everyone else and then amplifies the most combative takes for fun.

Isn't that how twitter works? Everyone gets on their soapbox and competes for attention by being the most intellectual superior person to see what everyone else (those going along with the pack) does not? So people just keep flocking from one soapbox to the next and it constantly morphs the Discourse as the marketing campaigns of twitter social philosophers look for new innovative ways to appear the most enlightened and unique? Just a constant rush to be ahead of the game; pulling stuff out of their ass and shaming others into adopting their smartest-person-in-the-room truthbomb tweet as the most forward thinking?

Some of us just post bad jokes and link to stuff

Twitter was more innocuous when tweets were limited to 140 characters and the "tweetstorm/tweet thread" wasn't a thing.

(in the replies you can see the discourse flipping *again* in real time,

Yesterday you said it's the same people changing their rhetoric from one day to the next. I only clicked once, but it seems to be a whole bunch of people saying different things, none of which anyone is required to read.

"Um actually, you're not so great yourself; AKA I've attached wheels and a gas motor to the goalposts: a thread"

Yesterday you said it's the same people changing their rhetoric from one day to the next. I only clicked once, but it seems to be a whole bunch of people saying different things, none of which anyone is required to read.

― huge rant (sic), Tuesday, December 22, 2020 12:21 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's the same people in terms of people liking/responding to it; you can also see good examples of consensus with anyone who dissents (example:

The funeral one i actually agree with. as someone who has had a number of loved ones die over the last year, traveling for a funeral isnt worth pitentially spreading more death

— still spooky matt💀👻🎃 (ACAB BLM) (@Tasty_Arsenic) December 21, 2020

at any given time on social media, there is someone implying that you are a terrible person for the thing you are doing, and these arguments are made with varying degrees of competence. none of these people will be handing out social manna chips that can be redeemed for a better seat in the afterlife. their judgments only contain the power we give them.

immediate peers and family, that's a different matter. but if you wanted to, you could find ten tweets that indirectly implied you were the antichrist in ten minutes based on minor lifestyle choices you've made. best to just click to something else, like pics of puppies

(the replies to that)

k: this world is killing me
a: when you think about it, aren't you *letting* this world define itself by your death?
k: no, i am a prisoner of the Discourses; disagree with me not lest i be slain
a: once when i was a child i saw a firefly that reminded me of freedom
k: [dies]

I see people... disagreeing with each other.

I see one person saying "I disagree with this one small portion of the OP and many people piling on to say "fuck you"

But like... marginally. No one there seems to be arguing COVID isn't real or any of that idiocy - they're bringing up different points and perspectives. And some people are dumb, like responding to a flight attendant with "we're all out of work" - I mean, no we're not all out of work and some people have to go do their careers to survive. Yay capitalism.

she deleted that Tweet, so it appears she was aware of its stupidity

in before people tell me that I'm deluded because they actually said fuck off and therefore my entire point is invalid

I mean... one person posted as if her shit didn't stink and then several people told her roses really smell like poo poo poo. That's not discourse, that's a blue check with a bunch of clout having her large audience respond to her.

^

see, this is the current state of the discourse but I guarantee, because I was there, that when it first was posted the response was overwhelmingly positive

Then more people responded and they had different perspectives. I don't see where any individual was rah rah to Jane Marie and then decided, due to peer pressure, that she's Satan.

I've refrained from arguing Chelsea Fagan's point several times when people I know IRL got overly full of themselves for their ability to stay inside without encountering another human being for 9 months. Offloading all risk on to the 19-year working for DoorDash tips because you've got a trust fund isn't really noble IMO.

except that the "different perspectives" are unanimous consensus with whatever is the going state of the Discourse, except for the one or two people who express the wrong opinion and then get piled on and told to die

and people wonder why I am scared to interact with anyone I encounter in real life

the discourse is an illusion; just random twitter accounts competing for views and clout

people are more reasonable in real life when conversations can happen and it isn't just one pixar smirk mic drop after another

xpost but

it's the same people in terms of people liking/responding to it; you can also see good examples of consensus with anyone who dissents (example:

not everyone in those replies are saying the same thing. also, I have no idea who any of them are, and no reason to care about them disagreeing or agreeing with @Tasty_Arsenic. also, one example is barely even anecdotal evidence.

if it's causing you stress to read replies, log off. if you are planning to travel and do not want to read people posting at you about traveling being bad, then do not post about traveling.

(traveling increases risk of acquiring and transmitting the virus. if you are reading what people post about traveling because you are looking for affirmation that traveling is safe, you are unlikely to find it. if you are looking to be dissuaded from your decision to travel, you appear not to be prepared to be dissuaded. if you are not traveling, and nobody is traveling to visit you, then you have no imperative to read posts about traveling, even if you don't log off.)

one pixar smirk mic drop after another

pixar /= dreamworks

You quoted different perspective! 'A funeral was very important to go to because the psychic trauma of 2020 is already bad enough'/'Funerals are not worth endangering others even if it feels important to you.' That's just a disagreement, you can (for instance) come down on the latter side while still fundamentally understanding how someone felt like the former was true.

Jane Marie appears to have taken (a very small amount of) shit because she posted from a place of ego, hectoring people to conform to a standard she made up on the spot, in a forum with a large audience, inviting people to respond.

aha yes of course

xp

lads

the disagreement is "I agree with this except the funeral part" "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU"

are you even reading what people are saying

Yes. I read all the quoted tweets and screencaps - tasty_arsenic was agreeing with a woman who said going to a funeral was irresponsible and explained why it was irresponsible.

(Also, none of the peoples whose tweets were quoted or screencapped said "fuck you" or were even mean to anyone else.)

the replies:

"Imagine agreeing with that ghoul"
"Lol"
"Was (the loved ones they said they knew who died) your dad?"
"lmao scolding someone who went to see their dying father and burying him fuck off dude"
"Screw you."
"oh fuck off"
"Stfu."
"Fuck off idiot"

I guess I was right, I WAS told I was deluded because they said "fuck off" and not "fuck you"

rip

You left out other responses like

I think that’s a deeply personal decision as long as the funeral is open air, masks, etc

— Dan 🍜 (@ThiccStauskas) December 21, 2020

The rituals surrounding death of family have been around thousands of years through much worse plagues and events. These are a fundamental part of humanity.

— Amb Terintia (@ATerintia) December 22, 2020

Yes it is. Going to your Dads funeral, to be with your mother and siblings is 100% ok.

— Howard Moon multi instrumentalist (@GiantDad15) December 21, 2020

But none of them are responding to Jane Marie or the people you initially referred to, they're talking shit back and forth with other left edgelords.

who are those people and why are you reading their tweets

yesterday you said they are real people who we both know, but even if that's true - which I doubt - those 14-character tweets are not themselves substantive.

they're responding to an opinion that was floated

as far as "who are these people" -- they're actual people, that I could encounter, for all I know they could be friends, or friends of friends, or alt accounts of people I know. their opinions are no less inherently valid than yours or anyone else's

(this is also funny because I distinctly remember being told a while back that "left edgelords" weren't real. I guess their realness or non-realness depends entirely on whether it can be used to tell me I'm wrong)

Personally, the past two decades have solidified my opinion that social media is pernicious and engaging with it with any degree of personal openness is a sure way to get myself emotionally overwrought... and i'd include ILX in that category too!

Some people are capable of playing the game and working "the discourse" for networking and exposure. I am not and I know it. I allow ILX in to the extent that it allows for controlled conversations about and exposure to media that's of interest to me and I (very very stupidly) allow instagram in as an effective portfolio for art that i wanna share with my art community. Even instagram can warp my brain if I allow myself more than five minutes on the damn thing.

Otherwise, I've proven to myself that allowing for extended engagement with disengaged voices from actual people will make me sick over time, so I really avoid it. But that's me! You guys may be made of sterner stuff.

Part of my issue is that it can be difficult to determine the veracity and import of voices that you internalize if you really commit to listening to an entire crowd, which is part of what I think i'm hearing from Katherine and which i empathize with.

Yes, if this conversation has reinforced anything for me it's that social media is a festering blight which is best avoided in most circumstances.

that's a copout, as "social media" consists of real people whom you may encounter in real life

people blame "social media" as a way of avoiding the fact that people are just like this

Most people are like this on social media because they don't face the more immediate repercussions of being like this face-to-face with other people.