Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

If anyone is saying it's wrong to shop during a pandemic then I was a bad boy today but it was either that or starve.

That has nothing to do with the “Shkreli discourse.”

Nevertheless, those two statements aren’t necessarily contradictory.

Well, what’s your take on it? What if the discursive consensus expects you to have an opinion of your own on this issue because it can’t resolve its own self-contradictory nature without your help?

― pomenitul, Monday, December 21, 2020 7:06 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't fucking know what my take is, and I do know that I am expected to have an opinion on my own, and that's the whole problem

as for the examples upthread I just mentioned them as examples of other new rules enacted or reiterated

Framing moral imperatives in a format that will maximize twitter likes is probably going to produce something less than optimal that might be best to ignore.

Who is expecting you to have an opinion? It's perfectly fine not to have an opinion.

Katherine, we're all on our own out here. You seem to be an intelligent, sensitive person, and presuming you are an adult and now fully individuated you have developed your own moral compass. Use it. Find your center. Listen to your heart, etc. It sounds, again, like you are caught in some kind of trap, and people itt are trying to tell you it's a maze of your own making.

What if you were to go with ‘I don’t know what my take is exactly because I don’t have enough information to make a call here – and that’s my take’?

well, for one, all of you are expecting me to have an opinion, so there's that. and then when a statement is framed as a moral imperative, or when somebody is shamed for doing the wrong thing, implicit in that is an expectation that you, too, should stay in line, or you are next

What if you were to go with ‘I don’t know what my take is exactly because I don’t have enough information to make a call here – and that’s my take’?

― pomenitul, Monday, December 21, 2020 7:11 PM (eighteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

then if you're lucky you get away with it, if not, or if you have already been deemed bad, you get screenshotted with "lol how can this bitch not know what the call is"

xp Next for what?

next to be screenshotted and mocked, to lose friends and gain enemies, and if it's sufficiently bad, to be reminded of it daily

why type anything if you don't want to? again, is this a specific situation you're trying to navigate?

If you don’t want to have a public opinion... just don’t have one?

Like, even your dichotomy (which I don’t think exists) is a pretty simple scale of gray IMO. Shopping is unavoidable unless you’re rich enough to completely offload risk to delivery people. If you wear a mask and don’t hover over the people around you, good job! If you wear a mask incorrectly, ie dicknose, I’ll roll my eyes at you being a dumbass. If you don’t wear a mask at all I’ll assume you’re an asshole but it shouldn’t be criminalized because cops are generally bad. If you act out and spit on someone, that someone should get to kick your ass while ejecting you from the store but I’d still prefer you just get punched instead of arrested.

Is there anything else going on in the world at all

Katherine...if your opinions are so inflammatory that you risk losing friends over them...maybe they're not actual friends but bored 2D avatars?

I don't mean this condescendingly...it's an honest question: have you ever considered just going totally offline for a couple months to what effect it has on the way you perceive yourself and your immediate surroundings?

to see what effect^

silence is also an option

then if you're lucky you get away with it, if not, or if you have already been deemed bad, you get screenshotted with "lol how can this bitch not know what the call is"

it strikes the people making it as fair and nobody disagrees with it

Nobody? Are you sure?

yes

silence is also an option

as above, when somebody is deemed bad then absolutely nothing that can be said or done to them is considered off-limits

When it comes up so regularly, seems fair to question what is even being talked about.

katherine nobody here is "deeming you bad"

xp I have no idea why you think you’re bad or whatever you’ve done/haven’t done is bad, but I feel pretty confident this thread isn’t going to help you answer any of those things

Equating disagreement to abuse probably doesn’t engender the most level-headed responses either.

Really starting to understand why you get the grief you do, milo. More fool me, I guess.

as above, when somebody is deemed bad then absolutely nothing that can be said or done to them is considered off-limits

I didn't say I didn't find it fair, but even if I didn't, I don't have a choice in the matter

Well I think snitching is cool but I’m not about to say that on the internet

Oops

Snitching to OSHA is good, snitching to the LAPD is not

snitching to the referees always bad

Has there been any credible info on the superstrain claimed by the uk govt yet

i was going to link an article on 'unherd' i just read but then ran across this on their front page and... what the hell

https://unherd.com/2020/12/the-inconvenient-truth-about-transwomen/

so uh, not sure about the 'credibility' of this site

Worst Colin Cowherd spinoff

they're saying the new strain of the virus isn't necessarily more lethal or resistant to vaccines. there's also questions about whether it truly is 70% more transmissable.

but with any new development, always wait for more info t ocome out before assuming preliminary reports are gospel

The only names I recognized on the list of writers for UnHerd are Sarah Ditum, Julie Bindel, and Suzanne Moore, so I think I’ll pass.

Unherd is basically a "provide balance by publishing both left-wing and right-wing essays without editorial guidance" blog, started by the bloke who used to run ConservativeHome

Matthew Crawford wrote an incredibly boring book about the spiritual value of manual labor

Mike Rowe but liberalish

the new strain of the virus does worry me too but I haven't seen anything either way about how the vaccine does or does not interact with it

there’s no evidence that the vaccines that have been developed interact any differently with it iirc

Is the U.K. variant some kind of new supervirus?
No. It’s just one variation among many that have arisen as the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 has spread around the world. Mutations arise as the virus replicates, and this variant — known as B.1.1.7 — has acquired its own distinctive set of them.

What is unusual about it?
The variant came to the attention of researchers in December, when it began to turn up more frequently in samples from parts of southern England. It turned out to have been collected from patients as early as September.

When researchers took a close look at its genome, they were struck by the relatively large number of mutations — 23, all told — that it had acquired. Most mutations that arise in the coronavirus are either harmful to the virus or have no effect one way or another. But a number of the mutations in B.1.1.7 looked as if they could potentially affect how the virus spread.

Is it more contagious than other viruses?
It appears so. In preliminary work, researchers in the U.K. have found that the virus is spreading quickly in parts of southern England, displacing a crowded field of other variants that have been circulating for months.

However, a virus lineage becoming more common is not proof that it spreads faster than others. It could grow more widespread simply through luck. For instance, a variant might start out in the middle of a crowded city, where transmission is easy, allowing it to make more copies of itself.

Still, the epidemiological evidence gathered so far from England does seem to suggest that this variant is very good at spreading. In places where it has become more common, the overall number of coronavirus cases is spiking. Neil Ferguson, an epidemiologist at Imperial College London, estimates that the variant has an increased transmission rate of 50 to 70 percent compared to other variants in the United Kingdom.

Does it cause more severe disease?
There is no strong evidence that it does, at least not yet. But there is reason to take the possibility seriously. In South Africa, another lineage of the coronavirus has gained one particular mutation that is also found in B.1.1.7. This variant is spreading quickly through coastal areas of South Africa. And in preliminary studies, doctors there have found that people infected with this variant carry a heightened viral load — a higher concentration of the virus in their upper respiratory tract. In many viral diseases, this is associated with more severe symptoms.

Where did this unusual variant come from?
That is now a question of intense debate. One possibility is that the variant gained its array of new mutations inside a special set of hosts.

In a typical infection, people pick up the coronavirus and become infectious for a few days before showing symptoms. The virus then becomes less abundant in the body as the immune system marshals a defense. Unless patients suffer a serious case of Covid-19, they typically clear the virus completely in a few weeks at most.

But sometimes the virus infects people with weak immune systems. In their bodies, the virus can thrive for months. Case studies on these immunocompromised people have shown that the virus can accumulate a large number of mutations as it replicates in their bodies for a long period of time.

Over time, researchers have found, natural selection can favor mutant viruses that can evade the immune system. Researchers have also suggested that the evolution of the variant might have been additionally driven by medicine given to such patients. Some mutants might be able to withstand drugs such as monoclonal antibodies.

Other scientists have suggested that the virus could have gained new mutations by spreading through an animal population, like minks, before re-entering the human population. Such “animal reservoirs” have become a focus of intense interest as more animal infections have been detected.

Is the variant already circulating in the U.S.?
Not yet, as far as anyone knows. But that does not mean it hasn’t already reached the United States. British scientists have established a much stronger system to monitor coronaviruses for new mutations. It’s conceivable that someone traveling from the United Kingdom has brought it with them. Now that the world knows to look for the variant, it may turn up in more countries.

Will the variant render the new vaccines ineffective?
No. Most experts doubt that it will have any great impact on vaccines, although it’s not yet possible to rule out any effect.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized two vaccines, one from Moderna and the other from Pfizer and BioNTech. Both vaccines create immunity to the coronavirus by teaching our immune systems to make antibodies to a protein that sits on the surface of the virus, called spike. The spike protein latches onto cells and opens a passageway inside. Antibodies produced in response to the vaccines stick to the tip of the spike. The result: The viruses can’t get inside.

It is conceivable that a mutation to a coronavirus could change the shape of its spike proteins, making it harder for the antibodies to gain a tight grip on them. And B.1.1.7’s mutations include eight in the spike gene. But our immune systems can produce a range of antibodies against a single viral protein, making it less likely that viruses can easily escape their attack. Right now, experts don’t think that the variant will be able to evade vaccines. To confirm that, researchers at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research are analyzing the changes to the structure of its spike protein.

Dr. Moncef Slaoui, the head scientific adviser to Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort to deliver a vaccine to the American public, said that the new variant reported in Britain was unlikely to affect the efficacy of a vaccine.

At some point — “some day, somewhere” — a variant of the virus may make the current vaccine ineffective, he said, but the chance of that happening with this vaccine is very low. Nevertheless, he said, “we have to remain absolutely vigilant.”

But Kristian Andersen, a virologist at Scripps Research Institute, thinks it is too early to dismiss the risk to vaccines. If the U.K. variant evolved to evade the immune system in immunocompromised patients, those adaptations might help it avoid vaccines. The vaccines would not become useless, but they would become less effective. Fortunately, experiments are underway to test that possibility.

“We don’t know, but we’ll know soon,” Dr. Andersen said.

from NY Times

Ty

yes

my cynical take is that there are a number of variants in play and while this one might have some distinct characteristics, the spread of it is opportunistically being latched on to by UK leaders as evidence of factors beyond their control, when factors that could have controlled spread are within their control

or if I’m more sympathetic to them, are perceived as within their control. they can’t seem to control much of anything

fwiw a variant that pretty obviously came from company leadership who had traveled to their meat processing plant was traced back to a likely single source earlier this year https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/genetic-science-coronavirus-outbreak-iowa/

i'm waiting to hear sanpaku's take