GET OUT: US politics November 2020

Or even trying to change their platform to convince more people to become Republicans, for that matter.

imagine if we didn't get to begin every election knowing "Texas is red, CA is blue" if all that mattered was margins and not who 'won' the state.

sounds kinda nice actually

And we'd never have to hear about "swing states" again.

but the point — apart from actually changing things — would be to make it a normal part of our political discussion.

The best part of foregrounding this would be forcing R's to admit they'd be starting from behind in this scenario.

You can get around the EC with the national popular vote compact, tho that has an uphill battle itself obviously.

But I absolutely think someone (ideally with some money, from Bloomberg or whoever) should launch a 30-year effort to push both abolishing the EC and restructuring the Senate..

watching the press conference, Sydney Powell sounds even more insane than Rudy Giuliani!

I also love the idea that "New York and Los Angeles will just choose the winner" if we get rid of the EC. At which point I always have to ask exactly how many people they think live in NYC and L.A.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:41 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just read Let the People Pick the President by Jesse Wegman. One of the guys who's been leading the charge against the EC is a computer scientist named John Koza, who's done a lot of presentations on the subject. Whenever the argument about California comes up, he asks people to estimate how much of the nation's population California makes up, and what percentage of California votes Democrat. The consensus perception, he says, is that Californians make up about one-third of the country and 90% of Californians vote Democrat. In reality, California is 12% of the country, and 62% voted for Clinton in 2016. (Looks like Biden got 64%.)

Oh my God, @RudyGiuliani #hairdyegate Rudy has hair dye running down both sides of his head right now at this press conference pic.twitter.com/wDUuCEbTK6

— Nutritionless broth vs. Synthetic saliva (@SyntaxWhiplash) November 19, 2020

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2bvXObc5yxg/hqdefault.jpg

lol

Rowdy Rudy thinks he's in a rerun of Ally McBeal.

I just clicked over to the press conference long enough to hear Jenna Ellis describe their legal cadre as "an elite strike-force team."

Also she said that "this is an opening statement" — they're describing "what the evidence will show."

Now she wants the media to go home and read the Federalist papers.

"This matters to election integrity, and it matters to the future of our nation." — Well, she's right about that.

sounds like they want full trials in multiple states. they're going to take this to the very end

Czech it: Czech president says Trump should quit after election loss and 'not be embarrassing'

At $20,000 a day, I would definitely take it to the very end. And beyond!

the thing about the electoral college is...everyone knows it's not good for democracy. republicans, democrats, everyone.

i get so sick of hearing the arguments about why it's bad. everyone knows it's bad. it's a huge, absurd but clearly true, fact of life. everyone knows benefits the republican party and they won't vote to get rid of it because they would lose power.

it drives me nuts when we all go through the motions of trying to consider the possibility that it's not obviously terrible. and yet, we have to do that, to leave open the possibility that eventually it will change.

the thing about the electoral college, though - it ends up benefitting republicans! do you think republicans know that?!?! don't let them find out, they would probably try to hold on to that if they understood the power of the EC

Hopefully they will take it beyond this place of wrath and tears, and into the shadowy realm of death.

xxp

If Democrats start flipping Texas then Republicans will suddenly hate the electoral college

and then ever 14 years some jackass will go on meet the press and get to talk about the electoral college, and Chuck Todd III will be like "now hold the phone, are you telling me that the electoral college is bad for democracy? the same one we've been using in this democracy since the founding fathers perfected it? before you answer that, let me ask our friend here from the American Enterprise Institute to mislead everyone, we'll go to commercial, and then in 14 years you may hear about this again, maybe"

same with fucking gerrymandering. sure would have been cool for anyone to talk about that, ever. and then things went quiet, as they always do, perhaps because democrats were crossing their fingers for another landslide Blue Wave that would deliver the power to reverse-gerrymander-tagback the republicans after the (extremely high quality) 2020 census. but then - OOPS! americans voted for the racist wannabe autocrats again!! looks like we'll have to table the whole "gerrymandering thing" until at least 2030 - maybe 2040, to line things up with the every-14-years-or-so Meet the Press discussion on the EC???

i get so sick of hearing the arguments about why it's bad. everyone knows it's bad.

They don't, though. I know a lot of Democrats and/or not very political people who have a vague general sense that the EC is actually beneficial in that it balances ... something or other. Usually they'll talk about farmers or something. Most people don't really remember how it works, but we're indoctrinated to basically believe in "the genius of the founders" and the wisdom of our system, and even some people who don't like that someone like Trump can get into office because of the EC see that as an unfortunate side effect of something they still think is Lawful Good in the big picture.

So I really do think it's a matter of decades of relentless pushing on the issue. And it's an easy campaign, message-wise. Every vote should count the same. Period.

meanwhile squad leader tom cotton is getting ready to drop 1,776 chemical bombs on any neighborhood that's less than 95% white christians

You can get around the EC with the national popular vote compact, tho that has an uphill battle itself obviously.

But I absolutely think someone (ideally with some money, from Bloomberg or whoever) should launch a 30-year effort to push both abolishing the EC and restructuring the Senate. Even 30 years is ambitious, but the point — apart from actually changing things — would be to make it a normal part of our political discussion. The people against it would be arguing against the basic principle that every vote and every American should count the same. There's no reason to leave that political/moral high ground unoccupied.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:33 PM (forty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

If the Electoral College was such a great idea, it would be reproduced all over the place - state elections, local elections, even internationally. But no - it's just the one.

― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:38 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That's among my many go-to anti-EC arguments. It has backfired before, tho. One guy (who lives in an urban area, no less) told me he'd be fine with rural counties having more votes for governor and senator.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:40 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I also love the idea that "New York and Los Angeles will just choose the winner" if we get rid of the EC. At which point I always have to ask exactly how many people they think live in NYC and L.A.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:41 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I agree that the interstate compact is the only way to get this done, but you are way, way over estimating the knowledge and intelligence of the American public on these topic. I bet less than 50% of citizens could even describe how the electoral college works or how it tends to benefit small states. Just have Bloomberg contribute $5B nationwide to advertise that:

• You don't actually vote for president. why do you vote directly for senators but not for president? The electoral college.
• Shouldn't you vote directly for president? Why don't they allow you to vote directly for president? Because the electoral college.
• Why don't the candidates visit your state? Because the electoral college.
• Why don't the parties spend money voting in your state? Because the electoral college.

sorry, *spend money advertising in your state*

xposts

i think pretttttty much everyone who is ever going to care or have any influence on the EC knows it's bad.

my (incredibly grumpy) opinion is that if you are a human being and you couldn't figure out that the EC was bad after it resulted in 2 (and nearly 3!) presidential terms being handed to the loser of the popular vote, then they're not worth the effort. you could - eventually, after long effort - get someone to understand it, and then 2 weeks will pass, they'll hear something else, distort the original fact, and pass on a bastardized version of the original argument against the EC, mixed in with the trademark mixture of 32% what their friend heard, 10% cornmeal and twigs, and 20% gut feelings

i’ve defended the electoral college before but rural states getting 2 senators apiece, and a simple majority required to block or pass legislation, should be enough for these peckerheads imo. the president is the executive and ought to rule by the BRUTE FORCE of a straight majority of the nation (*looks over shoulder*)

They don't, though. I know a lot of Democrats and/or not very political people who have a vague general sense that the EC is actually beneficial in that it balances ... something or other. Usually they'll talk about farmers or something. Most people don't really remember how it works, but we're indoctrinated to basically believe in "the genius of the founders" and the wisdom of our system, and even some people who don't like that someone like Trump can get into office because of the EC see that as an unfortunate side effect of something they still think is Lawful Good in the big picture.

So I really do think it's a matter of decades of relentless pushing on the issue. And it's an easy campaign, message-wise. Every vote should count the same. Period.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 1:23 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah the "what about farmers" argument is especially silly since California is our highest agricultural producing state, and the electoral college actually makes any republican farmer votes in California not matter.

is Bloomberg actually anti-EC and I may have missed it?

Also Tracer otm that senate is even worse

hey here’s an idea, how about in the year of our lord 2020 the idea that totting up physical territory is the right way to balance the various interests of the nation is, how you say, kinda hapsburg

frankly i’ve been thinking long and hard about the presidency and if you want to know the results of my deliberations i’ve decided that it fucking sucks. we don’t need tripartite government. move to a prime ministerial system where the speaker of the house appoints cabinet posts and gets on with getting shit done. the presidency is a hangover from the regency where he was literally expected to lead troops into battle.

One of the main reasons that the Founders were reluctant to embrace a popular national vote was because they assumed that most people weren't informed about national affairs and would just vote for someone they knew from their own state rather than someone they'd never heard of from another state. Obviously, the logic behind this argument has long since become archaic.

Also, the Founders couldn't make up their minds about how to elect a president -- they debated the matter for days -- and the Electoral College was basically the best they could come up with at the last minute while finishing up the Constitution. So much for their "genius."

I don't follow many people on twitter, but I finally had to unfollow Chris Hayes. 90% of his posts are "my god, we are in the middle of a pandemic, people are dying!!!!!" Yeah, I know, man. And the rest are stuff like "My god, Trump is staging a coup!" Sure, but in the dumbest, most unlikely way possible. Keep your powder dry, dude.

here's how the bush campaign was planning to fight the results if gore had lost the popular vote and won the EC:

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/bush-set-fight-electoral-college-loss-article-1.881690

count me in for prime ministerial system. abolish president & senate

As long as nobody can Viktor Orban it I'm game

I could def get behind a parliamentary system too.

But anyway, I hate to be in the Somebody Should Do Something camp, but for real, all of these issues CAN be given much higher visibility and amplification, and it absolutely should be a major long-term push by progressives of all stripes. We have a long history of fighting for voting equality in this country, the EC is the next frontier.

Nancy Pelosi appointing cabinet posts truly would led to a civil war. (many xp)

i'm with you, tipsy. (on this, and generally on almost everything - you are very otm in general). i think that's right. it just seems so futile, now, any sort of strategy that involves convincing people on anything, based on logic or experience or history, anything. i'm feeling very down.

President Trump’s drumbeat of baseless claims about the integrity of the election and the decision by most Republican lawmakers who know better to play along are taking a damaging and dangerous toll on democracy.

There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, but a new poll from Monmouth University finds that 77 percent of Trump’s supporters believe President-elect Joe Biden only won because of fraud and 88 percent said they need more information on the count to know for sure who prevailed.

Overall, 60 percent of Americans believe Biden won the election fair and square. But Trump’s P.R. campaign to sow doubt is working. A Monmouth poll before the election found that 55 percent of Republicans felt confident in the electoral process. Now, just 22 percent of them said they feel that way. Overall, 61 percent of Republicans are not at all confident in the election’s fairness and accuracy – up from 13 percent in September.

60% believe biden won

Now she wants the media to go home and read the Federalist papers.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), T

I'm gonna go get the papers, the Federalist Papers.

88 percent [ZS: of fucking racist trump supporters] said they need more information on the count to know for sure who prevailed.

like...i don't know how to read this and then go back to my work and ask someone on my team for that deliverable that's due this afternoon. what does it matter? what the fuck is wrong with everyone??

yep sorry I suppose I’m conflating Parliamentarianism and Prime Ministerial, or is this one of those things where all squares are rectangles etc


anyway, abolish senate and presidnet thing hardcore, damn

any sort of strategy that involves convincing people on anything, based on logic or experience or history

well we don't think these things work, why can't our side try psychological warfare and fearmongering propaganda?

what is a deliverable? who is in charge? are they managing me? it's tough to say! i need more information

personally, i've tried screaming and using extreme sarcasm voice for several years in a row. it doesn't seem to be working yet

for about 20 years before that, i also tried listening and reasoning with "them", just to be clear. how much of my life did i waste trying to win over morally bankrupt fuckers who were never - NEVER ONCE - operating in good faith? decades!

there's just no fucking point