GET OUT: US politics November 2020

I definitely think this is going to become part of our election process from now on. First the vote, then the lawsuits to try to overturn it, then the pressure on election officials, legislatures, electors. It’s a pretty complex system with a lot of different potential pressure points that can be used depending on circumstances. This is exactly what the endless refrain of “We’re a republic, not a democracy” has been paving the way for.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:22 AM bookmarkflaglink

tbf pressure on electors has always been a thing. supposedly 85% of Obama's electors reported being called and asked to flip their votes in 2008.

but the rest of your post is the scary part. we've seen the partisan divide can actually be worse in state legislatures. a lot of the checks and balances have held...now. but we do not have room to backslide.

Oh I would 100 percent expect my state Legislature to overturn electors in a heartbeat if we somehow voted for a Democrat. Our GOP supermajority is capable of anything.

people I know were actively encouraging others to pressure electors! I know Donald Trump sucks but I think people are under-remembering how stupid 2016 was. At least Hillary Clinton conceded, but she continued to claim the election was "stolen" from her which I still don't understand the basis for.

I definitely think this is going to become part of our election process from now on. First the vote, then the lawsuits to try to overturn it, then the pressure on election officials, legislatures, electors.

No, only when Democrats win.

fart particles from a recently distended anus

December thread title.

xp Which will not, as it turns out, be part of the election process for terribly much longer.

No, only when Democrats win.

This x 1000.

It's a blatant Ezra Pound steal from his "In a Station of the Metro":

The apparition of these faces in the crowd:
Fart particles from a recently distended anus.

You keep doing this "both sides" thing to be reassuring, but you keep comparing two scenarios that are wildly different.

Yes, there was an organized "Hamilton Electors" movement in 2016. that part isn't new, people try to do that all of the time. but it was not something I really felt comfortable with.

Hillary conceded within the typical timeframe and she made very clear that she was saying the election was stolen from her via Russian interference. she specifically said this. not that Russians got into the vote totals and changed the tallies, but that the Russian interference did help shift voters to Trump, and that Trump's campaign was complicit in this.

Also important to note, there were scientists who weakly suggested Hillary file recounts in four states, and she opted not to do it - Jill Stein did, and only one state granted the recount.

this isn't something that 'started with Dems and Republicans continued'. you're focusing on things that are in the same ballpark but at different ends.

xxxxxxposts to man alive

like literally, once Hillary lost, she stood aside, and Trump's administration began transitioning like...that next day.

True, but it really wasn't in Hillary's court to block the transition like it is for pouty mcfartface.

I think Hillary had a point about Russia, WikiLeaks, and Comey. And she conceded immediately despite the shock and frustration.

yeah, she was saying underhanded tactics 'stole' the election, not that literally illegal ballots were cast and/or computers changed the vote totals.

A dispatch from Florida (the state with the prettiest name!):

Maria then asked the Lord to do what the president’s legal team has failed to do—and somehow prevent Democrat Joe Biden from taking the Oath of Office on Jan. 20.

“We ask you, Father, to use your powers during these investigations and amid this fraud that is being attempted by these evildoers who want to destroy our nation, destroy our faith and to remove you from your throne,” Maria said. “That is what Marxism is all about, like the organization called Black Lives Matter... So I ask you, my Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, that you block the malevolent plans to rob him of the presidency.”

The pro-Trump prayer vigil provided fresh evidence of just how potent MAGA doctrine remains in Florida, a state where Biden and a slew of House Democrats lost, Trump acolyte Gov. Ron DeSantis is still in charge, and COVID-19 trutherism remains in vogue. In fact, the scene painted a grim picture of how a disinformation-laden future could be inescapable in the Sunshine State, no matter what Biden attempts nationally once he’s sworn in.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-truthers-make-desperate-last-stand-at-miami-church-vigil

any chance Trump is into autoerotic asphyxiation and that he might just forget to say when

American Christianity, particularly the religious right, continues to remind me of the sequence in Embrace of the Serpent, where the main character visits a Spanish Catholic Mission in 1909, and the Priest is an abusive asshole, but they're practicing traditional Catholicism. and then he comes back to the same Mission by 1940 and it's some random cult dude that believes he's God running things.

tipsy 1000% otm and the fuckery is going to go down much more smoothly when the candidate is like Nikki Haley and she comes within spitting distance of winning because of college educated whites and the NYT editorial board

xp ha! nice reference

WASHINGTON (AP) — America’s ruling party condemns democratic process for 12th straight day after opposition leader won presidential election

— Matt Negrin, HOST OF HARDBALL AT 7PM ON MSNBC (@MattNegrin) November 19, 2020

More framing like this, please.

Funny how it works

.@RudyGiuliani is claiming now there was not a "singular voter fraud" in key states but a "plan" that was mounted "from a centralized place" to "execute these various acts of voter fraud." And the judges are in on it. So it's a deep, dark, national conspiracy. But...no evidence. pic.twitter.com/N5dFRLG2eA

— David Corn (@DavidCornDC) November 19, 2020

I'll say once again: I truly hope that this bullshit makes GOP voters overly-confident that their chosen candidates will fight tooth and nail regardless of election results and that GOP turnout (particularly in downticket races) is significantly depressed as a result. Why haul yr carcass all the way down to the voting booth instead of just letting Bobby Belligerent (R, Mississippi) bitch and moan incessantly after he gets his ass handed to him at the polls?

American Christianity, particularly the religious right, continues to remind me of the sequence in Embrace of the Serpent, where the main character visits a Spanish Catholic Mission in 1909, and the Priest is an abusive asshole, but they're practicing traditional Catholicism. and then he comes back to the same Mission by 1940 and it's some random cult dude that believes he's God running things.

― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:43 AM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes!

Like sitting GOP congresspeople remain silent about this affront to democracy at their own peril. I honestly don't know why they're so sanguine about allowing the source of their power to be undermined.

god I wish we had a Dem president who could look at this bullshit and determine the best/only course of action is to abolish the electoral college

The guy acted like a loony authoritarian asshole when he was mayor, nothing's changed tbh. I mean, the guy led a police riot when he was running for mayor. Not saying it shouldn't be noted, but it's just like— this is not out of character.

sorry, re: Giuliani

xxpost 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of state legislatures would have to agree

I feel like it was conventional wisdom around here when Trump entered office that there was no way the GOP members of Congress would be willing to sacrifice even an iota of their power to the executive branch. Then they spent 4 years proving us wrong.

You can get around the EC with the national popular vote compact, tho that has an uphill battle itself obviously.

But I absolutely think someone (ideally with some money, from Bloomberg or whoever) should launch a 30-year effort to push both abolishing the EC and restructuring the Senate. Even 30 years is ambitious, but the point — apart from actually changing things — would be to make it a normal part of our political discussion. The people against it would be arguing against the basic principle that every vote and every American should count the same. There's no reason to leave that political/moral high ground unoccupied.

If the Electoral College was such a great idea, it would be reproduced all over the place - state elections, local elections, even internationally. But no - it's just the one.

That's among my many go-to anti-EC arguments. It has backfired before, tho. One guy (who lives in an urban area, no less) told me he'd be fine with rural counties having more votes for governor and senator.

I also love the idea that "New York and Los Angeles will just choose the winner" if we get rid of the EC. At which point I always have to ask exactly how many people they think live in NYC and L.A.

or if they remember Reagan won both back in the day.

California has only been a blue state since 1992

one of the best anti-EC arguments was actually made by Trump himself -- that if we chose by popular vote, he'd just campaign more in places that are currently not swing areas. There's nothing stopping the GOP from trying to drive more turnout in Texas, or pushing for the votes of California and New York's pretty substantial minority of Republicans.

Or even trying to change their platform to convince more people to become Republicans, for that matter.

imagine if we didn't get to begin every election knowing "Texas is red, CA is blue" if all that mattered was margins and not who 'won' the state.

sounds kinda nice actually

And we'd never have to hear about "swing states" again.

but the point — apart from actually changing things — would be to make it a normal part of our political discussion.

The best part of foregrounding this would be forcing R's to admit they'd be starting from behind in this scenario.

You can get around the EC with the national popular vote compact, tho that has an uphill battle itself obviously.

But I absolutely think someone (ideally with some money, from Bloomberg or whoever) should launch a 30-year effort to push both abolishing the EC and restructuring the Senate..

watching the press conference, Sydney Powell sounds even more insane than Rudy Giuliani!

I also love the idea that "New York and Los Angeles will just choose the winner" if we get rid of the EC. At which point I always have to ask exactly how many people they think live in NYC and L.A.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:41 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just read Let the People Pick the President by Jesse Wegman. One of the guys who's been leading the charge against the EC is a computer scientist named John Koza, who's done a lot of presentations on the subject. Whenever the argument about California comes up, he asks people to estimate how much of the nation's population California makes up, and what percentage of California votes Democrat. The consensus perception, he says, is that Californians make up about one-third of the country and 90% of Californians vote Democrat. In reality, California is 12% of the country, and 62% voted for Clinton in 2016. (Looks like Biden got 64%.)

Oh my God, @RudyGiuliani #hairdyegate Rudy has hair dye running down both sides of his head right now at this press conference pic.twitter.com/wDUuCEbTK6

— Nutritionless broth vs. Synthetic saliva (@SyntaxWhiplash) November 19, 2020

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2bvXObc5yxg/hqdefault.jpg

lol

Rowdy Rudy thinks he's in a rerun of Ally McBeal.

I just clicked over to the press conference long enough to hear Jenna Ellis describe their legal cadre as "an elite strike-force team."

Also she said that "this is an opening statement" — they're describing "what the evidence will show."

Now she wants the media to go home and read the Federalist papers.

"This matters to election integrity, and it matters to the future of our nation." — Well, she's right about that.

sounds like they want full trials in multiple states. they're going to take this to the very end