You can't expect a populace who on the average is dumb enough to vote Trump to understand "defund the police". Liberals have a track record of not dumbing shit down enough. These stories and stats are exactly the same as those re: ACA.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:34 (three years ago) link
I actually want to defund the police
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:34 (three years ago) link
I posted the wrong tweet:
One woman says "I love Lady Gaga but all of Hollywood supports Biden and Democrats." Another woman says "Lady Gaga is kind of crazy and I don't think we should listen to her talk about government. She wore a dress made of meat."— Danny Barefoot (@dannybarefoot) November 10, 2020
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:36 (three years ago) link
From a focus group of people who "leaned Biden but flipped to Trump in the last two weeks of the election":
these people were always going to vote for trump. they are conservatives, fuck these people, leave them behind forever imo
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:37 (three years ago) link
― k3vin k., Wednesday, November 11, 2020 9:34 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
high five!
I assume all these people hear is 'libs don't care about our safety'. Getting through to them is no easy task.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:37 (three years ago) link
I’m in favor of many crimes tbqh
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:38 (three years ago) link
Defund, disarm, downsize
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:38 (three years ago) link
Also, meat-bedecked Lady Gaga for president imo.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:38 (three years ago) link
my hot take is that swing voters are a creation of statistical polling and they are not worth building or modifying platforms around because they are not human beings acting in good faith
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:40 (three years ago) link
but they dislike meant, so that's a plus
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:42 (three years ago) link
meat too
"these people were always going to vote for trump. they are conservatives, fuck these people, leave them behind forever imo"
Idk I think that 70% stat and similar ones you see when you slowly explain liberal policy proposals using words no longer than 6 letters indicate that many of these ppl are open to the ideas but the messaging has failed. When i hear about "defund the police" or whatever I, yknow, read up on it. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT READ. (Facebook doesn't count.)
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:43 (three years ago) link
The people who most love the policy of defunding the police, also love the slogan. if you point out the vulnerability of the slogan to distortion by your opponents, then you obviously hate the policy, or you don't sufficiently love the slogan, which we all must agree is excellent no matter what anyone says about it.
tbf, I think it is a powerful slogan for motivating a particular segment of the voting population who have an immediate, intrinsic understanding of what it means in terms of bettering their lives. so, it's great for organizing in over-policed communities. I think it is much less useful in wider general elections, where the decisive majority of voters do not suffer from over-policing. Those middle class communities would be more receptive to a message that they are over-funding the police for too little benefit in return. It's a small change in emphasis, but in the tiny confines of a slogan, every change of emphasis is huge.
"Shrink bloated police budgets" maybe? Then you immediately open the conversation on the subject of why the budgets are bloated and make the police defend their budgets against that charge.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:50 (three years ago) link
wait until these people find out that "defund" *is* the compromise, and many people prefer abolition
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:52 (three years ago) link
j/k mostly
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:53 (three years ago) link
C -, for that xgau tweet
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
haha
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
when you start babies on solid food, you don't make them chew
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
I have previously shared on ILX the story of my husband working to sign people up for the ACA in a red county in California. The number of people who didn't realize they were participating in the ACA already or didn't realize that Obamacare and the ACA were the same thing was shocking to him.
While certainly evidence of the utter stupidity of our population, it is also evidence that conservatives branding the ACA as Obamacare did a great deal to dissuade people who might have otherwise used it because they were racist.
Many people think the police deserve less funding and money, and quite a few of these people might actually be conservative! But the right has done a great job of portraying a common sense policy initiative with the taint of Black Marxism, so to speak, and while I hesitate to engage with such shenanigans, rethinking the phrase might actually be a good idea if we want to see fewer murders at the hands of pigs in this country, as well as more resources going to services that need funding...
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:56 (three years ago) link
And I mean, I fucking hate cops. I really do think rethinking it is a good idea.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:57 (three years ago) link
How about 'Terrorize the police'?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
That's the quiet part you don't say loudly.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
I feel like "demilitarize the police" is a good baby step on the path to abolition for those wishy washy folks
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
Trolling aside, 'Demilitarize the police' has a better ring to it imo.
xp
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:01 (three years ago) link
In tandem with 'Defund the military'.
To be honest, might be as simple as switching it to a more positive verb.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:02 (three years ago) link
ppl certainly not acting in good faith when they pretend their objection is not only about the phrase more than the sentiment, but about *other people’s* potential response to the phrase, and certainly nothing to do with their own interests. serious case of pundit brain
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:04 (three years ago) link
Defund the police sounds like a whole lot of people losing their jobs.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
good
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
demilitarize the police seems to not imply disarmament, which should also be one of the compromises, if we must continue to have police (imo we musn't)
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
Well I mean we don't need to imagine other people's "potential" reactions when we have their actual reactions to go on
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
but that’s not what it is!
ppl certainly not acting in good faith
Left, I'm certain that you are very certain about other ppl's bad faith.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
Fund Our Future (with money taken from police budgets)
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
also police militarization seems like a relatively recent phenomenon. whereas police brutality is extremely not new
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
Seems like BLM and DTP are both slogans designed more to create an in-group than a coalition.
― DJI, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
I disagree in the case of BLM.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
DTP sounds radical. It IS radical. The Left continually swings for the fences and then wonders why they strike out. Start with smaller goals. Like table said, might result in fewer police murders if a temporary compromise is baked into the messaging.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:10 (three years ago) link
People who are pro-abolition trying to figure out ways to get further toward the goal by switching messaging isn't bad faith. It's being fucking practical because people are dying and communities are suffering.
I have two ACAB tattoos, have been arrested numerous times, and fucking hate the police, and I think it's a good idea to try alternate approaches.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
Empower the Police! Remove domestic disputes, mental health calls, non-lethal confrontations, etc from their list of responsibilities so they can focus their training on detective work. (This involves reallocating their budgets to fund the agencies more suited to dealing with these tasks and removing those call responsibilities from the police, empowering them to focus on their core function)
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
obv needs workshopping but this is the general idea, cast taking money away from the police as a good thing for the police
― DJP, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
I would accept “legalize crime!”
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
I don't want to re-litigate BLM because I think it has finally become well-understood, but it feels like it took so much work just to get people to understand the slogan, and I'm not sure what the point of all that work was.
― DJI, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
this is all so bleak
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
Lots of countries have very low amount of police murders while having an extensive police force. There’s a bit of exceptionalism in the american left when they refuse to learn from other existing and successful models and go for their own radical situations, bit of the same with the landlord/housing debate. On the other hand, I can’t help but think how permantly baked racism is in the police force and it might be true that it is helpless. I don’t know!
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:15 (three years ago) link
djp otm in that the idea that drew me further toward abolition was thinking about how many jobs the cops have that they aren't qualified for and suck at
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:16 (three years ago) link
Police hate the cities they work in and see themselves as at war with the populations they police. If there are models for denazifying the police let us know.
― The Bosom Manor Michaelmas Special (silby), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
Yep. And the number of teens and young adults with criminal records, needlessly, because a cop intervened during a mental health crisis.
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
― a nice person (Left), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:15 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Not to be snide, but read the room.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 11 November 2020 22:18 (three years ago) link