2008 Primaries Thread

xpost re Obama backlash -- when you need to pull in a blog post by James Wolcott as evidence of a trend, you're kinda reaching.

hi guys i just drop buy wondering if you all could illustrate a tidy resume of whats up with say clinton, obama and why not mccain on the following themes

* Health and social mission
* Environment and Sustainable Development
* Management of the state and economy
* Education, Family and Human Development
* Future of us politics

ban Sebastien

xpost -- no robots?

Wow. Edwards and Santorum enjoying some quality time with their dead sons.

LOL. She hais crazy, bugged-out eyes.

I used to like McKinney, and even Zell Miller, but something crazy happened to Georgia Democrats.

SPEAKING of Santorum, what the hell is he thinking tonight, I wonder -- seeing George Allen up there introducing McCain and him all 'but I'M the real conservative ex-Senator! fuck you!'

I used to like McKinney, and even Zell Miller, but something crazy happened to Georgia Democrats.

otm

hi guys i just drop buy wondering if you all could illustrate a tidy resume of whats up with say clinton, obama and why not mccain on the following themes

try the internet

I'm a bit tired to tackle all of Sebastian's post, (n.1) but as to this item

Management of the . . . economy

I'd say it's an easy choice (for me). Obama and Clinton favor progressive taxing of upper-income earners and would target any stimulus to the sector that really can stimulate the economy (working-class people, who actually would use any stimulus funds to pay for goods, thus injecting that money back into the economy, and stimulating it).

By contrast, McCain -- when he has economic ideas at all (he's candidly admitted that he lacks an interest in, and a deep knowledge of, the economy) -- says that spending cuts stimulate the econony, and former Sen. Phil Gramm, not known for his compassion on economic issues, is one of McCain's top advisors (I can dig up some choice Gramm stuff later). Also, one of his few sensible economic positions -- opposing the Bush tax cuts -- is now part of his reinvention of himself (he now says he only opposed the cuts because there weren't equivalent spending cuts, which is something he certainly didn't say (or even imply among his reasons) at the time).

Long story short: There are very good reasons to believe, on policy and other grounds, that either Obama or HRC is make a better manager of the economy than would McCain.

_______________________________
(n.1) However, I don't think he should be run off. We need more conservative voices around here. Real debate strengthens the mind.

"He," in my footnote, is Sebastian.

re: o backlash

"Here's the thing. My parents remember this kind of fervor for John F. Kennedy. I remember it to a slightly lesser degree for Bill Clinton - who, by the way, is still a rockstar, still draws fans who want to touch him and have him sign their bras, and can still hold a room of his supporters riveted for two hours with just his voice. I've seen it happen. It is, actually, a little unnerving."

but wait there's more

Mccain believes in supply-side/voodoo-/reaganomics.

Any more questions?

hahaha oh ZELL MILLER, how we forget you, you who reminds us of such a bad period in all our lives

You might forget him, but Zell Miller & Co. had the last laugh that year. Oh, how I fondly remember those halcyon days of late October 2004 ("Zogby says Kerry is almost a shoe-in!," "I can feel a change in the air," "Bush will lose this election").

i got hillz followed narrowly by b. hussein obama

lol huckabee didn't even appear on my list

OMG, Obama's middle name is Hussein!?! I'm changing my vote.

Obama and Clinton favor progressive taxing of upper-income earners and would target any stimulus to the sector that really can stimulate the economy (working-class people, who actually would use any stimulus funds to pay for goods, thus injecting that money back into the economy, and stimulating it).

Theoretical at best.

I would be happier if one of the candidates would say we need market correction before we can even consider any sort of stimulus package. In no circumstance should we help someone who enters a speculative market when they could not afford to do so or the financial institutions that opened the door for them.

Theoretical at best.

What do you mean by this?

(Do you mean that the candidates' economic plans are theoretical at best, or my description of those plans is too theoretical, and thus inaccurate?)

I would be happier if one of the candidates would say we need market correction before we can even consider any sort of stimulus package. In no circumstance should we help someone who enters a speculative market when they could not afford to do so or the financial institutions that opened the door for them.

Daniel wasn't even talking about housing/foreclosures here. You're conflating two different issues.

That's right.

the themes in my post were the themes of our "debate of the chiefs" televised extravaganza, i was sort of posting for contrast or something, i mean, sustainable development? anyone heard a word of it .. i havent! from watching ok tv of a foreign coverage of us election pov idksddc,bvfsf,n

Not sure about all the "Sustainable Development" issues. McCain, I believe, says that global warming is a real threat requiring change. He sponsored a bill to cut emissions, I think, years ago, which was defeated, but later drew criticism for supporting a more tepid GOP bill.

I'm working from vague memory here, tho. Someone else here can correct me if I'm mistaken.

well right winger radio says he "believes in the global warming hoax"

Right. Example of Conservative Scientist attacking McCain for his 2004 climate-change Congressional Hr'gs.

Thing about all the McCain-related bitching is that it's primarily from (using Dr. Bob Altermeyer's def) your standard rightwing-authoritarian follower-types. In other words, they'll fall in line with whatever "strong leader" is defined for them.

So that's 28-30% of the vote secured for McCain already.

A longer piece on the same subject (McCain's 2004 position on global warming).

Oh, yeah. I have no doubt that -- when push comes to shove -- the right wing will fall in line behind McCain. Especially if HRC is the Democratic nominee.

I know some say differently now. Words, words, words.

I think SOME of the right wing will stay home. But I wouldn't get overconfident yet

also while I find it hard to believe talk radio won't come around, they're hammering McCain so much that it's a bit difficult to see how they'll change courses

Words, words, words.

Lots of sabre-rattling now. They'll come around.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/60minutes/main3804268.shtml

Everything we know (and might say) now is going to change after the conventions.

"...Whoever wins this Democratic primary...they're the toughest, baddest candidate on the block."

eeeh, relatively speaking, but kinda true.

(grahmor aside)

obama at noon not 11 say the friends who work at key arena

Obama campaign says "doors open at 11" for Key Arena event.

Go there with yer cameras. We want pics, dammit, and not just the usual wire services.

How many folks here have blown out a lunch for a campaign event? The only time i can think of doing so was when Ralph Nader visited Ann Arbor sometime in 2000, and we sat around in the theater for an extra 30-60 'coz he was delayed.

http://www.glumbert.com/media/romneyarnold

I'm debating whether to go down to the Obama-rama tomorrow. I have a meeting at that time, but it's just a school thing that I can easily skip out on.

Jay-Z merch at Easy Street should fly tomorrow

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004171450_clinton08m.html

RON SIMS, ET TU?

No mattah, I'm kinda happy to see Hillary cutting out some bullshit in her appearances. (Bill being in Tacoma helps) She's sharpening herself. Although I'll hold that thought until Obama at noon tomorrow.

No endorsement of Hillary from Gov. Gregoire yet

HMMMM

lolz Ann Coulter on "The Today Show." Matt Lauer is soooooooo in love with her.

most of you have probable read up on it all already, but here's an article that sums up the clintons' funding situation fairly well

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120244004594552909.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_leftbox

here's another:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=a7Fp3OexFdD0

Obama "has more than 650,000 donors. That's far more than the Clinton campaign, which won't release the numbers."

the pessimism in me thinks that it's going to be neck and neck until the end, with clinton winning because of the michigan/florida delegates

"One thing about the current debate debate: Obama's has agreed to the two debates in which Clinton is probably least interested -- ones held in states where she leads, Ohio and Texas.

Meanwhile, he's not going to risk a game-changing debate moment until after the next run of votes, in which he seems to have an edge, is over."