Being a socialist, a radical, or an anarchist is not the same as 'bitching loudly on the internet every day'.

honestly, the reason I haven't joined dsa is that it would put me in close proximity with the kinds of people who join dsa (not all of them obviously, but the irony poisoned contingent)

honestly, the reason I haven't joined dsa is that it would put me in close proximity with the kinds of people who join dsa

hahaha i love this

lol see thread title

honestly, the reason I haven't joined dsa is that it would put me in close proximity with the kinds of people who join dsa (not all of them obviously, but the irony poisoned contingent)

― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 11:01 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Also the DSA believes in incrementalism and really exists mostly to sell newspapers (aka Jacobin) from what I can tell. Obviously prefer to have DSA that some centrist scum on city council or higher-up, but jesus, people really love political parties. Boggles my mind.

the number of politics people that just have a hard-on for meetings and committees is pretty depressing tbh

table you know there are lots of anarchists in DSA right

itt: ppl sneer at both being posting online and trying to do some actual good irl

Moaning online is praxis

sorry I'm being unnecessarily bitchy about this because despite DSA's (many) flaws Canada lacks a left org even 1/10 as effective in doing Real Things that actually improve people's lives from time to time and it bugs me to see ppl be dismissive about it

I'm not sneering at anything, I just don't trust and can't be around that kind of person, and they would probably also fucking hate me if not worse. it isn't bragging about anything and I wish it weren't like that

Nah I know I'm just being frivolous also I mean it a little bit, the revolution will not be po-faced

(it would also help if they did anything about the rampant sexual harassment issue)

Moaning online is praxis

I was horrified when a local councillor turned up on my doorstep trying to get me to attend a meeting last year. I only joined the party to support Corbynism. If I want to go into a room full of ppl - I'll go to a frigging pub!

after being subject to a fucking section 47 a couple of years back, they were the last meetings I'm ever to attend and unfortunately I had no choice in the matter.

i'm sure i'll meet annoying people in the mutual aid group but might also deliver some warm clothes or something. also it's like once a month. maybe it will suck as much as this thread? won't know until i try it.

oined up with dsa finally, going to try helping out with the mutual aid group. going to try and focus on that instead of posting about left-wing politics on the internet which has been such a black hole for me the past year.

― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, November 11, 2020 6:48 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've been learning so much about the framework of mutual aid throughout this time! I've never been inspired to do the reading on anti-capitalist frameworks and my understanding has been superficial, but MA really taps into my lived experience.

I tried to do it where I live, but my block didn't need it (I checked, everyone was already taken care of and our block assoc president was on it), and my local Black-led movement home wasn't putting white ppl into direct service work because it's bad analysis & bad practice (white savior-ism, gentrification, things the Black left movement has already been accused of by centrist Black electeds who resent pressure from the left). Sooo I moved to the country and now I volunteer in a MA network where I don't even live, doing technical and administrative stuff.

I miss being tuned into my community, but I LOVE that the conversations in the MA space are abolitionist, radical, transformative.

Last night I watched a discussion among Dean Spade, Ejeris Dixon, and Mariame Kaba titled "We Keep Ourselves Safe" and took away this point: Mutual Aid work is always both of these things:

1. It meets immediate needs for survival in the community, and
2. It has to be based on a deep strategy to remedy the underlying causes.

Basically, enjoy!!!

I'm contemplating going DSA. They're doing great work in the NYC political sphere, endorsing candidates and putting resources behind them. But New York has the Working Families Party which is kind of a mid-point maybe between D and DSA? I've been registered WFP before, I don't remember why I switched. Probably to vote in a primary at some point.

cool, thanks for the info.

no idea how it's going to look in my area. the most visible slc mutual aid group has been accused of white savior-ism. really i just want a way to connect with people in this kind of framework because i'm very suspicious of traditional charity orgs.

you could stay registered as D and still give money to or work for WFP

i'm sure i'll meet annoying people in the mutual aid group but might also deliver some warm clothes or something. also it's like once a month. maybe it will suck as much as this thread? won't know until i try it.

― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, November 13, 2020 11:55 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this isn't about "annoying," it's about not wanting to put myself in proximity to blackpilled irony bros

Blackpilled people don’t join the DSA.

outside of the Blackpill Caucus of course

i'll be sure to report here if i encounter any blackpilled irony bros

this is not my experience

but mocking someone for avoiding, for my own safety, people who are somewhere on the spectrum between contemptful and dangerous is really changing my mind, gotta say

I'm certain there are sexist assholes of all stripes in DSA but I have yet to be convinced they're any more common than in any other political formation (though of course it is more galling/infuriating when it comes from a left org). which is not to say anyone should have to put up with it if they don't want to.

My main issue is that a majority of the DSA people I know are white and have a real fucking hard-on for telling Black people to sit down because it's all about class. Whatever their intentions, that shit is toxic and I want no part of it.

this is a very specific subcategory of asshole (and it isn't about sexism, per se, although if a person's first political principle is contempt and cringe then sexism could follow pretty easily, and I'm not sure what else they'd join except I guess alt-right shit

tbf, maybe I'm reading your posts wrong but your argument is starting to sound quite paranoid

My main issue is that a majority of the DSA people I know are white and have a real fucking hard-on for telling Black people to sit down because it's all about class. Whatever their intentions, that shit is toxic and I want no part of it.

― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, November 13, 2020 10:51 AM (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a very specific subcategory of asshole (and it isn't about sexism, per se, although if a person's first political principle is contempt and cringe then sexism could follow pretty easily, and I'm not sure what else they'd join except I guess alt-right shit

― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Friday, November 13, 2020 10:53 AM (forty-six minutes ago)

yeah ... the thing with political activism in groups, for me, is that the interpersonal element ends up getting in the way of the activism. I spent decades doing arts organizing and a lot of the same issues come into play, except it's more serious, because it's politics, as opposed to a neighborhood art walk.

This is one of the problems with grassroots organizing that otherwise is something I like. I feel like it's growing pains, in a way, (hopefully) and that these groups will get better in terms of not being radical LARP-ing for white philosophy bros. Though it sounds like some of y'all have had good experiences, so it doesn't sound like something to be dismissed out of hand.

It's been almost 4 years since "The Fire" but I still remember the various attempts at organizing and it was really instructive for me ... mostly on a personal level to figure out what I wanted to get involved in, who I wanted to support. I am drawn to the "people that do things" vs. those that have meetings and talk about it and want the ideal perfect thing that doesn't end up happening. And I don't want to be dismissive of people drawn to the latter type of groups. I realize now that a lot of it is my personality.

i'm sure i'll meet annoying people in the mutual aid group but might also deliver some warm clothes or something. also it's like once a month. maybe it will suck as much as this thread? won't know until i try it.

― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Friday, November 13, 2020 8:55 AM (three hours ago)

I'm actually kinda curious what leftist mutual aid groups are like in SLC, because (as you know, but not necessarily other ilxors do) there's that aspect kinda built into Mormon culture, like maybe in SLC it will be more chill.

tbf, maybe I'm reading your posts wrong but your argument is starting to sound quite paranoid

― plax (ico), Friday, November 13, 2020 2:26 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

have you seriously never encountered any of these people

(what I do instead is donate which seems to be the next best thing, directly to people organizing stuff if I can)

your argument, and maybe i'm misreading you, is that you would like to join the dsa but "for (your) safety" cannot, because of some of the people who are members. This seems like a really strong allegation to make about this organisation, that it is literally unsafe to join. I'm not trying to suggest that you *have to join* or anything. there's lots of things i know i probably wouldn't enjoy for whatever reason, but this seems pretty strong.

Have you encountered them at DSA meetings, though? People you don’t like online who you assume would join the DSA doesn’t mean your local DSA chapter would actually resemble that.

My local was formed by a 9/11 truther who had to be put out to pasture. It’s not going to be perfect. But I’m going to wager that a group dedicated to the possibility of positive (primarily electoral) change would be overwhelmed with blackpilled nihilists who specifically reject the possibility of positive change.

would not be overwhelmed*

Likewise, the largest DSA chapter is the one that canceled on Adolph Reed for being a ‘class reductionist,’ so “they’re just class reductionists selling Jacobin” might not hold up to closer scrutiny!

i don't know what blackpilled means but i googled it and it sounds like its about incels and i though that was all v alt right

maybe "doomers" is a better word

but also like sorry to not want to hang out with people who call my friends fat and ugly?

blackpilled as a metaphor more generally means becoming depressed and suicidal about the state of things and ones inability to see light at the end of the tunnel

xp ok i have no idea what yr talking about

My local was formed by a 9/11 truther who had to be put out to pasture.

hahahah :( .... yeah, I think we might all be on the same page re the dynamics ... and some people might not want to engage until the "putting out to pasture" has been accomplished? idk really.

xps are your friends dsa members?

I don't think it matters all that much if any one person joins the DSA - for the vast majority it's going to be symbolic (especially until a chapter is large enough to organize action... and even then you're talking about outreach more than change), you're doing more 'work' volunteering at a food bank once a month.

If you attend a meeting and they're assholes, fair enough - but you don't know that until you attend one?

no, but my friends have been harassed by this specific category of extremely online irony bro

fraternities do volunteer work too, doesn't mean I want to be buddies with frat boys

blackpilled seemed to gain traction when Donald Trump won and some of the saddos that voted for him realized that he wasn't going to do a fascism. being blackpilled meant losing faith, as an alt-right guy, in the electoral process to make any real significant change, and either getting into the mindset to do a mass-shooting, or else retreat from society. people use it to describe left-wing people who have lost faith in the electoral process, and/or left-wing movements to make real significant change, but aren't looking to do a mass-shooting, though they may be looking to retreat from society. my wife calls me blackballed because of how cynical I am about politics (and because I like reading Jacques Camatte and Desert)