GET OUT: US politics November 2020

I mean, you're not wrong about any of that.

i think SCOTUS's indication that it likely won't dismantle the ACA does illustrate that it doesn't merely do Trump's bidding.

As with birther bullshit, the goal is to make Biden's presidency seem illegitimate from the get-go. I can't imagine giving bipartisanship the least bit of credence under such conditions.

this is why I wanted Trump to die of COVID btw

Yeah, again, I don't think the results are going to change, but it's the smaller, more incremental, long term damage this bullshit is doing to the overall health or our already weakened democracy.

from all I've seen, Trump's SCOTUS picks are not Trump cronies, they're just you're standard issue FedSoc hacks -- Trump has picked them as part of his bargain with McConnell and certain voting segments of the party, not because they are loyal to him.

Yeah, again, I don't think the results are going to change, but it's the smaller, more incremental, long term damage this bullshit is doing to the overall health or our already weakened democracy.

To wit:

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-us-facebook-posts-since-election-sow-doubt-about-results-2020-11

The brainworms are here to stay.

Again, this is not equivalent, but we just spent four years with a sizeable portion of the liberal electorate claiming that Trump couldn't have won the election by legitimate means

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

Almost half the country is going to hate the president, no matter what. That's going to be normal for a while so we may as well figure out ways to deal with it.

As an unapologetic partisan myself, it would be disingenuous of me to say it should be otherwise.

I can see why in BidenWorld, there is a memory of a time where collegiality and bipartisanship reigned, and it was normal to extend an olive branch, especially since you'd see the very same guys at the Cosmos Club or the Gridiron Dinner or whatever.

Just as it was normal to say of one's political opponents "I submit that the honorable gentleman from the great state of Missivania is a vile popinjay, and perhaps even a scallywag." And then retire to the bar at Old Ebbitt and laugh over cigars.

We're not there anymore, and it won't work, but I can see why it seems (to some) like an adequate strategic move to at least try.

the difference is, that's actually true

xp

The first time I realized half the country hated a president was when Clinton won in '92. Remember Bob Dole indicating that b/c Clinton didn't win with a majority he, Dole, would represent the rest of the country?

I’m certain “the norms” would be enough to keep them from doing it (and perhaps more serious legal considerations),,, but it would be funny af if the Biden team started dangling jobs in front of the louder dumber Trump folks as an “olive branch” so “the country can heal”, provided they publicly back away from Trump.

and then siiiike

“I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.”

Add the Comey 'reveal' to that list, and Hillary's right. You can't 'both sides' this shit.

xps

hacking?

Presumably the DNC email leaks.

yeah nobody seriously posited an opposition to Trump taking office. the "faithless elector" campaign wasn't an actual missive with serious backing, it was a bunch of desperate liberals hoping for some way for him not to take office.

Trump began transitioning 24 hours after he won the election. Trump's cronies are actively interfering with Biden doing the same and claiming victory.

as far as Russia, well...yeah some of us hoped something would come of that, but it wasn't exactly "nothing", even if no charges came from it.

I mean there are always "a bunch of reasons why the election turned out the way it did" and they pretty much always include lies and dirt digging. It just sounds like she was saying it's unfair that shit happens and nothing is supposed to happen. I still to this day don't understand how any of that makes trump an "illegitimate president." There's no evidence of vote fraud or votes being improperly changed. The fact that various factors influenced people's votes and some of them were dirty did not make the election "illegitimate."

if I'm Biden, though, I'm using Pompeo's comments as a springboard to start being more aggressive about this whole thing. the Republicans aren't going to anytime soon.

these aren't the same things man.

And even though Trump's response is far worse, as he is refusing to concede, I think the Democrats' insistence on that line of argument did damage both to themselves and our system.

Galaxy brain: all US elections are illegitimate.

Yeahhh, I'm finding it especially concerning that the line has moved from "We need to count all the votes and investigate irregularities" to "Trump definitely won."

Preface this by stating I find all of this concerning for reasons jon states.
I'm not concerned Trump and Co's claims have strengthened or gained any real traction. On the contrary, it sounds weaker. They tried the "let's just count all the votes" angle, it failed, so now they're left with just shouting "we won". They can say whatever they want, it's not gonna change votes or convince judges.

"even if no charges came from it."

I assume you mean no charges against Trump

But it *shouldn't be up to judges*. I think that's the point. We can't allow it to be established that "well only a federal judge can decide who gets to take office, those vote counts are just dressed-up poll numbers, who knows who really got more?" because then, well, it's up to the judges and not to us.

...all true but the only way to shut them up is for the electors to vote. Once that has happened there is no recourse, concession or no concession.

the strength of these arguments in persuading a significant part of the American electorate is no small concern. one reason I just want this dog and pony show to end.

in the end, will it probably more be people whining "you know he didn't really wiiiiin, right", than people storming outlet malls and setting fire in the name of Trump, but....it's a match you really don't want to play with.

different states will begin certifying results earlier than others (Dec 14 is just when the electors vote), so we won't have to wait forever. Pennsylvania will certify by 11/23, which is why Trump's trying to shut it down. Governor Hogan and his Sec of State won't cooperate, so that one will go Biden.

Georgia has until the 20th.

And this is where our media, as usual, needs to do a much better fucking job of things. Hell, even NPR referred to it as the "still disputed election" just this morning, which is irresponsible at best. I mean, if I stood out in the street screaming and insisting that the Pope is actually a lizard that feeds on the skulls of infants, no one is going to report that "Pope's humanity is still disputed" and rightfully so.

Schrödinger's talk show host:

"At this stage, the fraud that we can confirm does not seem to be enough to alter the election result. We should be honest and tell you that. Of course, that could change," he said, on his Fox News show Tucker Carlson Tonight.

"But changing the election results is not the whole point. The real point is that fraud took place, and that should horrify us. If you want people to believe that our system is real, that our system is worth say joining the military and dying to protect, then you've got to get to the bottom of what just happened and you've got to do it as quickly and responsibly as you can. You can't have fraud in an election because then no one will believe in elections and then things fall apart."

https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carlson-election-fraud-may-not-alter-outcome-1546252

It's up to the judges to throw out the frivolous lawsuits. I mean this is what Trump does! Use the threat of litigation or frivolous lawsuits to wear people down and intimidate them into getting his way. May work in the world of celebrity or NY real estate but ain't gonna work here.

CNN hasn't been playing that game - they basically just wrote "Pompeo says there will be smooth transition to second Trump administration even though Biden won"

Yeah, CNN and MSNBC have been doing a pretty decent job of deflating this stuff, but I hate to see NPR giving even the barest hint of air to this shit. It's maddening.

People's brains are mostly broken in America. during the Iraq War, all it took to get people to think Iraq was behind 9/11 was....to say Iraq was behind 9/11 and let the news report on it.

A week later, after that linkage had thoroughly debunked, some asshole crashed our anti-war rally and said they "proved on the news" that Iraq was behind 9/11.

so all you have to say is "people are saying there's fraud" and the average idiot doesn't realize that the people that are saying it is the person who said people are saying it because that's as far as those lazy assholes care to investigate.

then, these same idiots finally realize that they were being lied to, five years after everybody else (or more) and then go "well I didn't hear YOU all figuring this out back then!"

Nancy, Chuck, Biden himself, and every network just need to make it a major controversy anyway just to force his phone to ring off the hook and cause more frustration to the Trump campaign.

AOC will likely be all over it first though.

Meanwhile... Wall Street has already moved on:

Even though President Donald Trump is promising to fight and has not conceded, there is little doubt on Wall Street that Joe Biden will become the 46th president of the United States on January 20.
"For most investors, the perspective is that the election has been settled," Tobias Levkovich, Citigroup's chief US equity strategist, told CNN Business. "Providing evidence of shenanigans and irregularities is required in a court of law. And I haven't seen any."

it's also not nothing for foreign leaders to recognize Biden. if Trump did attempt to seize power for himself for a second term, it wouldn't work out real well if foreign leaders/entire governments refused to recognize him as the President

Tell that to Vlad.

FFS this is so fucking dumb and predictable

The statement was followed by a stilted laugh, so it is unclear if he was speaking in serious reference to the Trump administration’s legal challenges to the election, or in an attempt at humor.

good joke Mikey!

*bombs Iran*

"lol come on where's your sense of humor?"

Biden now up by 47.5k in PA. There is no way any judge will throw out that many votes. No one on Trump's team has presented any evidence to get more than a handful of ballots tossed. They're relying on the same ol BS of dead voters, "I talked to a guy who knows a guy who saw something strange". Shit doesn't hold up in court. Hilary is gonna be in jail, big investigation into Obama spying, I'm going to show Obama birth certificate is a fake, etc etc. Dude is all talk.

love to laugh about my role in creeping authoritarianism, lulz

That's just what villains do tbf.

My mom just texted me about Pompeo statement, asking to be talked down. We're all so traumatized by this fuck and his enablers.

If these mostly GOP secretaries of state insist elections happened fairly in their states, Pompeo, McConnell, etc. can babble all they like. They're thinking of GA, not Biden.

Granny D otm, exactly where we were on Saturday.

O wau you found a ballot with a name that matches an obituary

Grebt

Now you only need another 56,999 of those

Good luck usa

wait til they find out some of the fraudulent votes *didn't* go to Biden! Zounds!