i think her point in that tweet is that 65% of californians think of themselves as liberals, but a lot (most? more than on the east coast?) are ... actually not. there's this *huge* anti-tax nativist streak here among what passes for mainstream liberal politics that i had been fortunate enough never to have encountered until i moved here. it exists elsewhere but it's the baseline here.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:25 (three years ago) link
it's incredibly demoralizing because at least the anti-tax/anti-services nativists elsewhere don't act like they're on my side.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:27 (three years ago) link
there is plenty of market rate housing being built in cities and exurbs but it's laughably out of the price range of most people, and does very little to solve homelessness.
SF at least underbuilt for decades and hasn't nearly caught up.
― lukas, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:35 (three years ago) link
there's this *huge* anti-tax nativist streak here among what passes for mainstream liberal politics
I don't think it's accurate to call it "liberal" though -- definitely mainstream, for sure. And I think you are experiencing the CA brand of liberalism that tends to be more progressive on social issues compared to the rest of the country, but are more fiscally conservative than people in other parts of the country with comparable views on social issues.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:36 (three years ago) link
i mean ... yes? that's the tweet.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:39 (three years ago) link
I just don't think there was sufficient messaging on most of these propositions by the parties that we likely wanted to win. 16? I never saw a single billboard, received a piece of mail, NOTHING. This should have passed. No organizations were pushing it. 15? messaging pro 15 was weak and did not adequately address the scare-lies coming from anti-15. Likewise, 22. Autonomy to most people means 'if you don't like that, don't work for those people." TBF, lots of people who work as drivers absolutely do like the arrangement they have. It's going to be some time before those workforces organize, if ever.
― akm, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:39 (three years ago) link
again it's semantics and it's relational -- liberal relative to stereotypical southern racists and conservative christians that refuse to make cakes for gay people. Other parts of the country are older and have much stronger traditions related to supporting unionized labor. California doesn't have that as much. I really appreciate your outside perspective even though I know I get defensive about the state my family moved to in the 1860s to escape militant racist assholes in Missouri.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:41 (three years ago) link
besides the part where it seems to miss the point about why moderate voters didn't vote a "liberal" (as you and Susie define it) agenda?
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:44 (three years ago) link
It isn't like there's a "Liberal Morals Clause" that people have to agree to in order to self-describe as liberal in certain contexts.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:45 (three years ago) link
Idk I feel like this is echoing the discussion on other threads about the term "Latinx"
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:46 (three years ago) link
This is turning into a no true Scotsman thing.My point (and what I understand to be here point) is that a state California is extremely fiscally conservative given itβs a state that voted 65% for Biden and the things itβs fiscally conservative about are particularly gross.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:47 (three years ago) link
Anyway, sorry in advance for blowing up the thread, but it is interesting to look at the ballot measure results by county and see which counties are closest to the state results. So far, the close ones I've noted are San Diego County, Ventura County, and the closest NorCal one is San Benito County (where I grew up right across the county line but politically is closer to my home town than Santa Clara County where my town is at the southeastern edge). These are not places that people tend to describe as home to good liberals.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:50 (three years ago) link
When I think of "particularly gross" and Ventura County, fiscal conservativism isn't the first thing that comes to mind ... San Benito County had an assemblymember for quite a while who people were quite fond of because he used his observations of the behavior of his livestock to argue that homosexuality was wrong because unnatural. ... The fact that these people might have voted for Biden is more a pleasant surprise than an act of political betrayal.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
maybe her post is based on actual people she knows ... I'm trying to be charitable here.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 22:07 (three years ago) link
congrats la
https://laist.com/elections/2020/results/district-4-los-angeles-city-council-nithya-raman-david-ryu.php
― Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Wednesday, 4 November 2020 22:11 (three years ago) link
NBC in LA is calling for Gascon.
Nice.
― lukas, Wednesday, 4 November 2020 22:40 (three years ago) link
maybe her post is based on actual people she knows ... I'm trying to be charitable here.β sarahell, Wednesday, November 4, 2020 5:07 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
β sarahell, Wednesday, November 4, 2020 5:07 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
you're overthinking it. the voters of the state of california voted for biden by 30 points and simultaneously voted down most of the progressive ballot measures. i don't think you have to look at individual county returns to understand what she's getting at.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:26 (three years ago) link
I understand what she's getting at to read, "there are so many hypocrites in California" whereas I would argue in the case of many voters, that is not the case because Biden doesn't represent "liberalism" and in the case of "liberal" voters the reasons she cites are not the reasons they voted down the particular measures. ... Again, unless she's thinking of specific people or referring to some other text that I don't know about.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:33 (three years ago) link
in the case of "liberal" voters the reasons she cites are not the reasons they voted down the particular measures.
why did self-identifying democrats vote against these measures?
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:40 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFvhhCulaw
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:43 (three years ago) link
Looking at individual county returns is instructive though -- like, who did vote against these measures? Orange County did, but I don't think she's talking about Orange County. There are the counties I mentioned that are not particularly liberal which reflected the state results: San Diego, Ventura, San Benito. The point being -- there are plenty of conservative and centrist voters who are going to vote against progressive measures and we would need more support from liberal and progressive voters to exceed their numbers. But this just sounds like berating people for being in the minority or for not being strategic enough in their voting to say yes to a problematic ballot measure because it represents a positive move against Prop 13, and if it doesn't pass there will be less impetus to challenge Prop 13.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:45 (three years ago) link
β π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:40 PM (five minutes ago)
this is just going off of anecdotal data but ...
Prop 15 -- concern for small businesses and artisans who will likely be hit with rent increases because owners will pass through the property tax increases, as well as businesses where they own their property but would suffer financial hardship.
Prop 19 -- is her issue that people should have voted against Prop 19? I voted against it, and a few other progressive guides recommended a no vote. However all the Democratic Party propaganda said to vote yes, and you were actually advocating a yes vote, so I didn't feel that demoralized when it has appeared to have a majority of support
Prop 22 -- worker autonomy and the ads suggesting that the drivers prefer to be contractors and not employees, and many of the ads featured minorities.
Nothing in her tweet suggested any position people should have taken on Prop 25 -- the cash bail one -- which was super fraught, and it came down to a bunch of people on the left speculating "which system would be more racist?"
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:53 (three years ago) link
Again, I am just saying "this is what people told me" and not "I agree with their reasoning"
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 04:55 (three years ago) link
i'm completely baffled by the point your trying to make by looking at counties.
the state of california voted for biden by 35 and voted against progressive ballot measures. that means a ton of biden voters voted against progressive ballot measures. i don't see how where those people are in the state of california is relevant.
and given that, there are two possibilities.
1. either many californian democrats are not actually that progressive on labor/housing/tax. this makes total sense to me and is all i'm trying to say! california voters (and the california democratic party) are on average way, way more conservative than similarly democratic east cost states on labor, housing and taxation! this seems obvious?! they are not hypocrites. i don't care whether they call themselves liberal or what.
2. millions of biden voters voted against those measures from the left? is that what you're saying?
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:04 (three years ago) link
i don't think she was talking about prop 19. or if she was, i'm not.
i'm talking about 15, rent control and 22.
either many californian democrats are not actually that progressive on labor/housing/tax. this makes total sense to me and is all i'm trying to say!
I agree with you, but I don't see how that supports what she said. Maybe I'm too focused on the "good liberals" phrase? ... the rent control one was awkward because I didn't see a lot of activism on it, probably because most of the progressive voters already live in municipalities with rent control. And the parts of the state that don't have rent control tend to be where the conservatives are. ... Also, I was unclear, would it have undone some of Costa Hawkins at all or just been an encouragement for rent control in general?
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:18 (three years ago) link
rent control certainly lost some votes because the details of ballot measure process/coalition building tactics were terrible, thanks to one incredibly vain person
If Michael Weinstein wants to repeal Costa Hawkins, he should write a check for mid-8 figures and hand it to ACCE with no strings attached. Weinsteinβs barnacle-like campaign consultants and lawyers should have no role higher than signature gatherer.— Ask Me About Prop. 15 (@TribTowerViews) November 5, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:21 (three years ago) link
this is my favorite california politics tweet today.
Today @FixTheCityLA cofounder Jim OβSullivan resigned as President of @MiracleMileMMRA. Jim wouldnβt even let @nithyavraman speak at a MMRA meeting since he was SURE that @davideryu was going to win. He has held back progress in Miracle Mile for years.π Jimβ₯οΈ Streets For All pic.twitter.com/tVr3Gcd0mE— Streets For All (@streetsforall) November 5, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:25 (three years ago) link
xp the rent control tweet -- lol at the username and image ...I agree with them ... I also have been at the top of the Trib tower fwiw
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:26 (three years ago) link
ok now i wanna know who @tribtowerviews is IRL
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 05:51 (three years ago) link
Just spoke with a rep from alameda county (where Prop 15 is currently up 30%) board of elections rep who said about 50% of ballots are still outstanding. #YesOn15 is still very much in this. #CountEveryVote pic.twitter.com/pJKleOeLcY— David #FeinsteinsAgainstFeinsteins Shor (@itsmedasho) November 5, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:01 (three years ago) link
yeah sfgate is saying that Prop 15 (and Prop 19) are still too close to call.
― sarahell, Thursday, 5 November 2020 20:04 (three years ago) link
Anyone know how they expect the remaining votes to tilt on prop 15? It's losing by a little, but I don't know what votes are left in CA.
― DJI, Friday, 6 November 2020 23:33 (three years ago) link
I'm looking at the "unprocessed ballots" report and there are still about 20% (or so) of the total still to be counted. And it looks like there are over a million left between LA County, Alameda County, Santa Clara County, and SF alone (all 4 counties that were high in favor of Prop 15). But there are also a bunch of unprocessed ballots in counties that have high "no" totals like Orange, San Bernadino and Riverside. ... My instinct is that the mail in ballots will probably skew progressive in line with Covid cautiousness, so maybe it will pass.
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 November 2020 00:14 (three years ago) link
^ this is just me looking at a pdf and then looking at the sos.ca.gov site results by county and doing a little math in my head -- undoubtedly if caek wanted to focus his talents on this issue, the results would be way more scientific lol
― sarahell, Saturday, 7 November 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
it's a big "maybe it will pass" from me too, but i am not optimistic about the usual leftward shift with late returns this time, because almost everyone voted early, so i think it's unlikely tbh :(
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Saturday, 7 November 2020 01:02 (three years ago) link
CA statewide COVID guidelines: Avoid social situations that bring together people from three different households at the same time in a single space or place.
Nov. 6: Gavin Newsom attends dinner with 12 people (from 6 households) at The French Laundry
Nov. 9: Newsom: β(The rise in COVID cases) is for obvious reasons. People are letting their guard down. Theyβre taking their masks off. Theyβre starting to get together outside of their household cohorts. Theyβre starting to see businesses reopen and weβre starting, again, to see more people mixing. As it gets colder, weβll see more still.β
Nov. 13: "While our family followed the restaurantβs health protocols and took safety precautions, we should have modeled better behavior and not joined the dinner.β
Don't blame me, I voted for Matt Gonzalez.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 14 November 2020 01:22 (three years ago) link
Nov. 17: that dinner at the French Laundry? It was with a fracking lobbyist.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 09:21 (three years ago) link
Thats his best friend, but more importantly it was indoors despite GN claiming it was outdoors.
EXCLUSIVE: We've obtained photos of Governor Gavin Newsom at the Napa dinner party he's in hot water over. The photos call into question just how outdoors the dinner was. A witness who took photos tells us his group was so loud, the sliding doors had to be closed. 10pm on @FOXLA pic.twitter.com/gtOVEwa864— Bill Melugin (@BillFOXLA) November 18, 2020
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 13:54 (three years ago) link
one of my best friends used to work at French Laundry when she was a teenager iirc
― sarahell, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 19:56 (three years ago) link
just for the record, bill melugin is one of the worst people in the state of california
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 19:57 (three years ago) link
Yes, but he is a conduit to counter the bullshit that Newsom is spewing. Enemy of your enemy, etc.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 19:59 (three years ago) link
(in this case, he's not on my radar at all)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 20:04 (three years ago) link
gosh i really expected so much better from the guy who divorced kim guilfoyle at 39 to hook up w 19 year old brittanie mountz
― the late great, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 20:09 (three years ago) link
Sure. Just be aware that heβs an βpublic safetyβ/law and order right win muckraker who is obviously aiming for promotion to national Fox News or whatever trump does next, and whose main source is the Los Angeles sherrifs department, whose leaks he credulously broadcasts.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 20:10 (three years ago) link
i think brittanie does marriage counseling now lol
― buzza, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 20:50 (three years ago) link
i will never get tired of bringing her up, sorry not sorry
― the late great, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 21:16 (three years ago) link
Joanna Newsom's cousin is a shit (allegedly)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 18 November 2020 21:19 (three years ago) link
β the late great, Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:16 PM (thirty-one minutes ago)
her name is the pierre delecto of SF politics
― sarahell, Wednesday, 18 November 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
curfew!!!
― sarahell, Friday, 20 November 2020 19:16 (three years ago) link