GET OUT: US politics November 2020

the ones i know, if they were reading this thread, would be laughing hard.

In an election where the key difference appears to be losing ground with people of color, reductively arguing “people wanted to do a racism” seems ridiculous.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, November 4, 2020 2:55 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

nobody is arguing this

i know a black Trump voter who posts racist shit all the time

If you just increase the circle of people who are unreachable and unworthy, you don’t ever have to confront why you lose elections. It’s not your fault, it’s theirs.

Do you honestly think every Hispanic and black Trump voter is racist?

Out on the town having the time of my life with a bunch of friends. They're all just out of frame, laughing too. pic.twitter.com/VCbkZwWwvs

— nathan fielder (@nathanfielder) July 12, 2015

really we'd get a lot more votes if we stopped being the racist police.

the argument is that the effect of a vote for Donald Trump is to endorse and facilitate actions that cause disproportionate harm, and that one's intent has literally no bearing on that

(people really hate this line of thinking, and it's really tempting to conclude it "...because deep down they know it's right")

Like racism goes a long way towards explaining Trump and Republicans popularity, but it doesn't go all the way. Let's leave simplistic explanations to the simpletons.

Kudos to frogbs for reassuring the WI(Mad./Mil.) vote would come in.

people aren't consequentialists in real life

Intent has all the bearing in the world because that’s how you figure out how to win voters.

propagandizing to people who might vote for your guy is more sensible than appealing to anyone's moral reasoning (which again I don't think most people engage in when they vote)

most people aren't consequentialists (and those who are are, in practice, very bad at it, if only because the act of living a generic US life causes baked-in harm all over the place), which is why it is so fucking maddening trying to get this argument across to people

wonder how this looks with Stacy Adams as VP instead of Harris

https://www.stacyadams.com ?

lol sorry too much west coast rap in the brain

Abrams

I support candidates that offer free shipping on all orders over $75

yep all those black males and hispanics are monumentally racist.

― Thus Sang Freud,

They are much better, though, at leaden irony.

Do you honestly think every Hispanic and black Trump voter is racist?

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger),

I honestly think this is a dishonest answer.

I'm one of the few brown guys on the thread who has tried, in my own manner, to share my experiences living among the people who most enthusiastically voted for Trump, and I'm getting shit answers I expect from students.

Kudos to frogbs for reassuring the WI(Mad./Mil.) vote would come in.

Yes, steady on for everyone who took his word over my snarky Minnesotan take.

when you say "answers" here do you mean "posts"?

xp

Dishonest? If racism doesn't explain every Trump voter than there's other explanations out there.

Being passively ok with racism, not being actively antiracist, and even being actively racist do not mean that racism was the sole or primary factor in determining someone's vote for Trump. There were racists who voted for Obama. To me reducing everything to racism is kind of a way of throwing up your hands and saying "ah this country is irredeemable I'll retire to my books." And the common rejoinder of "so you're saying we should appeal to racists?!" ignores the first point - racists are not mostly single-issue racism voters. You can appeal to them on something else that also happens to be a progressive goal, like good economic policies.

likewise, I have at least one Middle Eastern relative that I know about who's voted for Trump, and I really don't give a shit how much it was racism deep down in his heart that contributed to it

A lot of lifelong democrats are also racist.

also that!

can i sound like a toooootal goober & just say all I want right now is to have a President who can listen to the opinions of others & bring knowledgable people back into the decision-making fold

imagine that

that my baseline is so low depresses the fuck out of me

also...corny af but the prospect of kindness as a quality is really doing it for me now, as far as leadership goes

Trump campaign just announced that they are seeking to stop ballot COUNTING in a second state: now Pennsylvania.

— Abby D. Phillip (@abbydphillip) November 4, 2020

can i sound like a toooootal goober & just say all I want right now is to have a President who can listen to the opinions of others & bring knowledgable people back into the decision-making fold

otm

really we'd get a lot more votes if we stopped being the racist police.

― Thus Sang Freud, Wednesday, November 4, 2020 1:03 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

would love to see how this works out

To me reducing everything to racism is kind of a way of throwing up your hands and saying "ah this country is irredeemable I'll retire to my books."

LOL, the last thought I had last night was "How do I escape all this to live in my own private home/library, never to be bothered again?"

Clearly, I am not the most likely person to have useful answers.

j/k

(also should be said that this line of argument does, in fact, support reaching out to voters in the manner most likely to produce the intended results. for instance, I have been very purposefully not talking to relatives about the fact that I dislike Joe Biden, I didn't mention the Cal Cunningham thing at all until today -- which might have been a mistake, in retrospect, but I didn't think I could win the "yeah he sucks but vote for him anyway" argument -- etc.)

xp

Trump campaign now filing lawsuit to temporarily stop the counting of ballots in Pennsylvania as well.

"We are also suing to temporarily halt counting until there is meaningful transparency and Republicans can ensure all counting is done above board and by the law." https://t.co/tVNmSn5bhW

— Musadiq Bidar (@Bidar411) November 4, 2020

b-b-b-but how can they possibly have the finanical resources to do this? :-/

"and besides they're so incompetent!"

Since that isn't actually going to impact the outcome, it sounds like they are just trying to delay so they can sow more doubt, which is disturbing.

Possibly they don’t. Despite the bluster, cnn can’t find any evidence they have actually filed suit in Michigan

The Trump campaign has released a statement saying it has filed a lawsuit in Michigan asking the state to halt counting until it receives “meaningful access” to observe the opening of ballots and the counting process.

CNN teams in Michigan have not seen evidence that the suit has actually been filed but continue to check.

While the Trump campaign has said that lawsuit has been filed in the Michigan Court of Claims, docket clerk for the Court of Claims, Morgan Adams, told CNN that the court has not received the filing.

Cool, I am sure Trump campaign staffers are exactly the right people to dispassionately and objectively examine ballots and rule on their legitimacy. Cool cool.

Also, this...

In fact, the ⁦@MIGOP⁩ has so overwhelmed the Detroit vote counting room with “challengers” (most who are not lawyers), preventing actual Dem lawyers from actually getting in. Sure feels like a deliberate attempt to try to steal the election. pic.twitter.com/pIZCzUB6VH

— Jordan 🇺🇸🇺🇸Go Vote 🇺🇸🇺🇸Acker (@JordanAckerMI) November 4, 2020

suing to halt vote-counting

what a good and normal country

can i sound like a toooootal goober & just say all I want right now is to have a President who can listen to the opinions of others & bring knowledgable people back into the decision-making fold

imagine that

i mean, this is identifies a really significant axis of division, right? like as a collegio-american i want this too, but there are lots and lots of americans who feel that this leaves them out in the cold and would like a President who frequently and publicly tells knowledgeable people to get stuffed

Trump's current positions

Counting must be stopped in:

1. PA (where he's leading, but could fall behind)

2. MI (where he probably can't catch up)

Counting must continue in:

1. AZ (where he's behind)

2. NV (where's he's behind)

Recount in:

1. Wisconsin (where he lost)

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) November 4, 2020

who could ever have predicted such a thing

https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2637/3788650561_a8a6daa026.jpg

The lies are coming in fast and thick on my tweetdeck rn.