uhhh in your opinion, what should be the "employment" relationship of gig workers and other freelancers that more and more have been mis-characterized as independent contractors?
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
what is the polling on 22? is it likely to lose?
― Dan S, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:19 (three years ago) link
last I saw, it was close?
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:26 (three years ago) link
Ab5βs heart is in the right place but I think the consensus is itβs a badly written law with a lot of unintended consequences (most of which have been fixed?)Prop 22 sucks.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 00:31 (three years ago) link
yeah - a bunch of things in AB5 got fixed re the arts and cultural workers ...
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:40 (three years ago) link
Prop 22 is 46% for and 42% against, and undecideds have been breaking evenly from earlier polls, so it'll likely pass.
― nickn, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:48 (three years ago) link
Maybe. Ballot measures are very hard to poll.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 00:51 (three years ago) link
still hoping it fails
― Dan S, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:52 (three years ago) link
why are they hard to poll?
― lukas, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:53 (three years ago) link
Oh, Gavin. Voice so gravelly, hair so slick. Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful
― the burrito that defined a generation, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:53 (three years ago) link
I'm glad I engaged with this thread last month and learned me some info-facts on prop 22. I pragmatized my new knowledge and got into a text convo with my mom about it where I am proud to say I successfully persuaded her to change her (easily persuaded) mind from a no I think they should be able to stay independent to a hmm yes I understand now.
― the burrito that defined a generation, Friday, 30 October 2020 00:55 (three years ago) link
Slick with enough excess grease to keep the gears of the accomodation and compromise engine propelling him forward to the 2028 (2024?) dem primary. The debate with him & AOC squarin off is gonna be delightful
hahahaha for sure, and also we will all be reminded of the classic bearskin rug pic with him and Kim Guilfoyle ... still, he has actually been a less bad governor than I had expected.
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 02:04 (three years ago) link
Fun story -- almost half of SF's reigstered voters have already voted, Alameda County at 46%.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Bay-Area-s-early-votes-are-pouring-in-15682880.php
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 02:07 (three years ago) link
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 30 October 2020 05:36 (three years ago) link
did you see how they changed it this year? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/california-assembly-moves-to-loosen-gig-worker-law-for-some
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 05:55 (three years ago) link
I like the succinctness of Nedβs linked tweet regarding 22: ββ¦gig companies trying to rewrite labor lawβ
― john shopkins (naus), Friday, 30 October 2020 08:05 (three years ago) link
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Friday, 30 October 2020 16:01 (three years ago) link
I will say this about GOTV efforts on 22 -- as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.) I'd been receiving regular messages by text or voicemail once a day from either them or associated groups (including MoveOn? politics, strange bedfellows) for a couple of weeks now, reminding me about that and voting in general. After I turned my ballot over the weekend I responded to the next text after that confirming I'd voted and voted against 22 -- got a quick thank you note back and I haven't been contacted by anyone since. Which is good! It means they're running an operation that appropriately takes people off their contact list once they don't need to be contacted again and can concentrate elsewhere.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:20 (three years ago) link
as a Teamster (yes, I know -- anyway, your kneecaps, etc.)
The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they? The UC bindery/printing services workers have become teamsters in the past 10 years I think.
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:24 (three years ago) link
As for 16
MY LATEST @LATIMES COLUMNA: Latino ambivalence about affirmative action could doom Prop. 16. RT, porfas! https://t.co/QWLhXpbgP9— Col. Gustavo Arellano (@GustavoArellano) October 30, 2020
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:33 (three years ago) link
The teamsters have taken over/absorbed a lot of library-related workers unions in the Bay Area, haven't they?
I don't know about library jobs in specific though it's not surprising -- I'm part of it in the UC context, where the old UC clerical workers union, CUE, which includes library assistants like me as opposed to actual librarians who have their own union/org, chose to affiliate with the Teamsters about a decade back. Absolutely the case that the Teamsters have made getting public employee unions on board and a handy part of the drive has been further incorporating other nonrepresented employees via state labor decisions and so forth, and maintaining a high paying membership (consistently over 80%) even after Janus -- and keep in mind before the Teamster affiliation actual paying membership was down in the mid-20s. Anyway, it's been good to be part of this larger whole, though of course other public employee unions also means affiliation with, how you say, certain people known currently for their uniforms, firearms and the like when carrying out legal responsibilities. The reckoning has not yet come there.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:37 (three years ago) link
oh right -- I forgot you were UC affiliated.
― sarahell, Friday, 30 October 2020 16:39 (three years ago) link
This morning I found out that I pay four times as much property taxes as my local South Pasadena Trader Joeβs. My Trader Joeβs is four times the size of my home, so I am paying 16 times more per square foot than TJs. They are literally paying $400 a month in property taxes. pic.twitter.com/QmGsmIqnfI— Josh (@JalbyMD) July 26, 2020
I'm sure they pass those savings on to you, the customer, thoβ¦ right?— Aaron π₯ππ²π (@aceckhouse) July 27, 2020
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 18:59 (three years ago) link
lol no doubt
― sarahell, Monday, 2 November 2020 19:06 (three years ago) link
So if I'm reading this correctly this guy (JalbyMD) buys a house in South Pasadena last year for $1.5M and is now complaining about the property taxes he's levied versus those of the very first location of Trader Joe's (est. 53 years ago)?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 2 November 2020 19:38 (three years ago) link
that's not the first trader joes, and yes.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 19:39 (three years ago) link
his argument is not that his taxes should be lower.
i suspect his argument is that:
- if you are a business doing hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue
- and you own a piece of real estate worth, conservatively, $10m
- that benefits enormously from the literal billions of dollars the public spent putting a metro right line next to it
- and you have wealthy customers attracted to south pasadena by some of the best schools in the state of california
you should pay more property tax to fund services like schools and transit than, for example, a nearby three bedroom house.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 19:44 (three years ago) link
Not defending Prop13 in the least, but a few things:
1) Proximity to Trader Joe's is known to boost residential real estate values (and also lily-white suburbs but that's... for another time) so there's a bit of a fortuitous synergy happening there.2) The Metro Line is for employee transportation, those massive parking lots outside packed with hybrid SUVs & Teslas? Those are the customers' transpo. 3) In my research I found that 4 of the largest employers in the city of South Pasadena are grocery stores (well, as of 2016: Ralphs, Vons, Trader Joe's and Bristol Farms RIP).4) Why is it always the biggest YIMBY-brigaders tend to be recent transports to some of the lowest-density hamlets in the burbs? (who then relocate elsewhere within 10 years)6) Tax everyone more, but especially whiners like JalbyMD (and Trader Joe's too I guess).7) Bulldoze single family residences/neighborhoods within 10-mile radius of downtown centers and replace them with more sensible solutions with more equitable tax-structures.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 2 November 2020 23:22 (three years ago) link
(I'm running)
with more equitable tax-structures
what are these?
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 23:31 (three years ago) link
6) Tax everyone more, but especially whiners like JalbyMD (and Trader Joe's too I guess).
lol "I guess".
i get that someone who can afford the downpayment on a house worth ... checks notes ... twice the median LA county price is not particularly sympathetic, but they should pay less property tax than a trader joes!
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 23:47 (three years ago) link
Why is it always the biggest YIMBY-brigaders tend to be recent transports to some of the lowest-density hamlets in the burbs?
why do people who want to build more housing move to south pasadena? it's a good place to live for the same reason it is literally the best place to put more housing in LA county. it would absolutely rule to put a bunch apartment buildings there.
why do people people who move to south pasadena complain about their property taxes? i would imagine it's pretty frustrating to live next to people with 10x their wealth who pay 1/10th what what they do.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Monday, 2 November 2020 23:54 (three years ago) link
actually, i don't have to imagine. i own 20% of a house in california so i know how that feels too.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 00:01 (three years ago) link
did you post the link to the map app that shows the property tax info? There's one someone posted about that shows Oakland taxes, but maybe it was on fb.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 00:33 (three years ago) link
Bristol Farms is closed? All of them or just the SP one?
― nickn, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 00:37 (three years ago) link
This one?https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/map
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 00:57 (three years ago) link
thatβs the one. pretty much convinced me that even if I could afford a house here Iβd be an idiot to buy on general principle, and if I did I would immediately become like NIMBY #1 bc prop 13 ensures that.part of whatβs happening here is that every n+1 year beyond 1978 the distortions get that much worse. somethingβs gonna have to give.
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 02:14 (three years ago) link
If you think the prop 13 residential map is bad, you should see the commercial real estate situation. And of course that's what Prop 15 is about. So that's one answer for what's going to give, assuming it passes.
But as a YIMBY homeowner here in CA, I don't follow the rest of what you said: yes I pay way more property taxes than the previous occupant (who had owned it since the 60s), but I also have gained a lot of value in the decade I've owned. I actually don't see that value substantially at risk with neighboring increase in density, because I think that if something doesn't give we have significant systematic consequences.
(Bristol Farms here in the SF Westfield Center closed years ago)
― fajita seas, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 02:36 (three years ago) link
No if you can afford a house then you should buy one and never sell it. I mean you might be an idiot for other reasons but unless prop 13 is repealed and we start building housing home ownership is a no brainer from a financial POV. The best time to buy your house was 1976 but now is also pretty good.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 02:36 (three years ago) link
unfortunately i might sell mine because I need just one more room :( Yes this will cost me 10s of k forever.
― fajita seas, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 02:40 (three years ago) link
geez caek you are starting to convert me to greater pessimism about ballot measures -- the more I read some of these, the shittier and stupider they are. It's like, "oh, this would be a good change," and then you read the rest of it, and realize, "actually, this would also do something bad that is also stupid."
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:12 (three years ago) link
The best time to buy your house was 1976 but now is also pretty good.
My parents bought their first in 1977, and I admit, we're all grateful for that. Sold it in 1994 which enabled them to get the house in Carmel.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:17 (three years ago) link
Via Elections Project, meantime: 12 million voters already voted as of yesterday, more than half the registered electorate, and almost 83% of the 2016 vote total, not bad. You all figure they'll do send-a-ballot-to-everyone for the big biannual races going forward? Seems like a no brainer given how smoothly it's gone from what I can tell.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:19 (three years ago) link
haha xxp
i mean there are bad laws passed in the legislature too. but i think ballot measures are on average a little worse, and the are much much harder to repeal.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:23 (three years ago) link
I'm guessing that a lot of the progressive property tax reform energy went into Prop 15 (which I support) and so Prop 19 ended up with not much effort to oppose it, which is too bad, because it sucks. It's not as horrible as Prop 22 or Prop 20 are. But still, it's basically allowing old/er people to keep their low property taxes if they buy a home of the same or lesser value (the taxes get pro-rated up if the new home value exceeds the old one) ... which is stupid. These people are already property owners and will likely net a lot of money from the sale of the house, for one. Then, they will get to exclude a significant amount of gain from their taxable income because of the way the tax code works. In other words, the ads are all about "close loopholes for rich people" but really, the proposition is creating a big loophole for even more rich people.
And honestly, I don't understand, why, even though we are the state that is home to big corporations focused on data collection and integrating databases and such, why the state cannot take information from tax returns that show a house is being used as 100% rental and integrate that with property tax info, and treat residential rental property akin to commercial property in the context of Prop 15.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:36 (three years ago) link
xp Ned - my grandfather sold his house in Carmel right around 1994 and was able to buy a house in Monterey for all cash/no mortgage. He's dead now, but his son by his second wife lives in the Monterey house now.
My parents are still living in their tract home bought in 1975, which is worth probably about $650k now (it fluctuates between $600k - and $700k) -- and paying property taxes that are about as much as my monthly rent ... on a rent-controlled apartment I have lived in since 1997. ... basically the lesson is to stay put and not move.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 17:42 (three years ago) link
i think the logic on prop 19 is that it weakens the only good argument against repeal of prop 13, which is "granny loses her house when her taxes go up". i.e. ignoring prop 19 (or even advocating for it's passage) is praxis.
but yeah it's a weird one.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 18:17 (three years ago) link
of course, we could implement a system akin to that of New York that gives refunds of property taxes based on income, such that poorer people pay less.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 3 November 2020 19:30 (three years ago) link
If Granny is Dianne Feinstein, I kinda think she can afford to pay higher property taxes?
i'm with you. but i think prop 19 makes prop 13 politically weaker.
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Tuesday, 3 November 2020 19:48 (three years ago) link