"Will you shut up, man?" US Politics October 2020

Barrett's confirmation was inevitable, but I'm furious that the Dems couldn't get their shit together to drag their feet even a little bit.

serious question: what could the Dems have done? they're in the minority.

I was sort of hoping McConnell would drop over dead before the vote could happen

all the shit that the dems could have done involve quorum rules which would still involve getting mitt romney and susan collins to get lost in Arches somewhere. it wasn't happening

Probably nothing, but when the perception of a lot of your base is that you didn't try hard enough, that's a problem. In a reversed situation, the GOP would have dug deep and figured out more ways to drag things out. Watching the Dems continue to play a polite game of bridge while the GOP is playing a rigged game of Monopoly where they cheat at every turn is infuriating.

In a reversed situation, the GOP would have dug deep and figured out more ways to drag things out.

How? Are Republicans magic?

No, but they bend the rules, break the rules, cheat where necessary. They fight dirty.

wHen tHEy gO lOw

And that only works because they have a majority.

I think it's totally fine to be frustrated, angry and disheartened after her confirmation. Is my anger misplaced, maybe. But I can only shake my fist at McConnell for so long without recognizing the systemic failures of the party I support.

Procedurally speaking, his is like complaining that someone didn't try hard enough to stop a hurricane.

the perception of the Dem base is always that Dems are cowards and didn't do anything, whether or not it squares with reality.

often time it does, but in this particular instance, Chuck Schumer did initiate a closed door session to gum up the works, and Lindsay violated the rules of the committee in advancing the vote out of committee.

if Democrats refused to show up, there'd still be a quorum, so that wouldn't have achieved anything. can't filibuster anymore.

short of bringing the Symbionese Liberation Army into the chamber, this particular instance, there's not much else they could have done. (I am not commenting on other times, before anybody calls me Captain Save a Chuck)

Probably nothing, but when the perception of a lot of your base is that you didn't try hard enough, that's a problem.

It's a problem that these people are absolute morons who are fooling themselves that there was anything to be done short of planting an IED in the Senate offices.

If the Dems win the WH and Senate and don't pack the court, then we can make this argument.

I mean, it would have been viscerally pleasing had the Democrats murdered several Republicans to reduce their majority and delay the vote until after special elections/appointments but it also would have been a bad idea.

The dems have their issues but McConnell is an evil fuck who has been playing the long game and was ready to strike the second the stars aligned in his favor. And the stars were most definitely aligned in the GOP's favor here.

and even had they boycotted the vote AND a quorum had been short, the Sergeant at Arms could have legally 'arrested' missing Senators and carried them into the Senate, which did happen once in 1988 (to a GOP Senator).

I'm kind of amused at the idea of Chuck Schumer being carried in

This is all correct. I'm just angry and hopeless after another night of lost sleep, which is not helped at all by the construction site behind m house vibrating everything for the last two hours straight.

I mean, it would have been viscerally pleasing had the Democrats murdered several Republicans to reduce their majority and delay the vote until after special elections/appointments but it also would have been a bad idea.

― shout-out to his family (DJP), Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:43 AM (twenty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol, yes, I just about posted this very thing. Like the only recourse the dems had in this instance was extralegal in nature.

A major problem with the Democratic Party right now is that they think they have to take the concerns of the Republican Party seriously when they don't get the same consideration in return, so they make unnecessary and stupid concessions when they are in power that are never reciprocated. Few people here, if any, are going to disagree with that criticism but there are only so many times you can beat someone up for a past mistake when they aren't in a position to correct it.

FWIW I feel the anger and hopelessness, jon. The day RBG died felt like election night 2016 part 2. Just gotta clench and look ahead and hope this election night doesn't result in me literally tearing my own face off and then proceed from there.

Trump is so beyond the pale and so dangerous (tbf slightly mitigated by also being lazy and incompetent) that just electing a Democrat is not corrective enough. They need to hammer in safeguards and laws that have been pried loose over the past several years, and ideally make a strong case for it so that they don't lose the house the next cycle. (Assuming they get the WH and Senate, or even just the WH, which, if they don't ... I don't even know anymore).

btw, once again filed under "nobody knows anything, but maybe they do," it's somewhat telling, or at least worth noticing, that in their final pushes Biden has scheduled a stop in Georgia (and Harris is Texas), and Trump has scheduled a stop in ... Nebraska.

Nebraska probably didn’t put gathering restrictions on him

I mean, it's perfectly in character for him to campaign in Nebraska literally just because he can and no one else will let him. But it does seems a poor use of his time and resources (which is also in character).

I feel like part of the frustration comes from the fact that the one lever of power the Democrats have managed to get their hands on- the House- seems largely powerless in the face of a Republican Senate. Like, it seems that all they can do is launch investigations that ultimately get squelched. I would have hoped that they could launch an investigation into the rushed confirmation of Barrett as being part of a plot to suppress votes and attempt to steal or rig a national election, issue some strategic subpoenas, and try to slow things down at least. Clearly the Republicans were not just trying to help Trump’s chances by fast tracking Barrett, but also trying to game the system by suppressing down ballot votes in their own congressional races.

In chilling opinion yesterday Brett Kavanaugh signaled he's willing to help Trump delegitimize election & throw out mail ballots cast heavily by Dems

Kavanaugh & Barrett worked on Florida 2000 recount for Bush & could do Bush v Gore 2.0 for Trump https://t.co/Elnsnvqr4u

— Ari Berman (@AriBerman) October 27, 2020

this is fine

also the "intermediate steps" argument works both way; there are many things the Democrats could have done between Merrick Garland and now to prevent a Barrett confirmation, and largely didn't

but it also would have been a bad idea.

― shout-out to his family (DJP)

I don't even know who you are any more, DJP

xxpost this is fucked up, but....I don't think that would be enough votes to flip the election to Trump, as far behind as he is now.

though regardless, it's obviously a fucked up decision.

Bush v Gore 2.0 = kind of a poor analogy though in this article.

there are many things the Democrats could have done between Merrick Garland and now to prevent a Barrett confirmation, and largely didn't

What are the many things they could have done?

xpost this is why it's important that where possible in states that allow it, people returning ballots close to election date should drop them off in person. it shouldn't be necessary, but it's the only way to ensure we get every vote counted and get this cockroach the fuck out.

What are the many things they could have done?

― Change Display Name: (stevie), Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:11 AM bookmarkflaglink

win the White House/take the Senate were the two direct things, though that's in the past now

My wife and I signed up to do some text banking for Michigan. Wisconsin was one of the states we were considering too, but since she grew up in Michigan she has a close tie to the state.

Like invent a time machine and ask RBG to step down (my preferred method)?

The problem, as I understand it, is that different states have different standards for when ballots can no longer be accepted. The conservatives on the SC are being disingenuous, but even they are (legally) right that what flies in PA may not fly in WI. That's something states really need to clean up and deal with. I think I saw some statement from AOC yesterday or the day before that if NY were a swing state, its voting process and laws would be earning cries of bullshit as loud as those in FL or WI or TX or wherever.

btw I got ridiculed by several people when I said this back in March.

Like invent a time machine and ask RBG to step down (my preferred method)?

Re: WI voting, I don't see that ruling that ballots received after election day should not be counted where state law says they shouldn't signals that the SC would rule the same where state law says they should.

xp to JiC - bingo

Trump is so beyond the pale and so dangerous (tbf slightly mitigated by also being lazy and incompetent) that just electing a Democrat is not corrective enough. They need to hammer in safeguards and laws that have been pried loose over the past several years, and ideally make a strong case for it so that they don't lose the house the next cycle. (Assuming they get the WH and Senate, or even just the WH, which, if they don't ... I don't even know anymore).

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:54 AM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean, this is what it all really comes down to. Any system that a) doesn't correct for the fact that there will always be people trying to find ways to game the system in their favor and b) isn't dynamic enough to evolve its methods of correction as the methods of cheats and scoundrels evolve is a system doomed to collapse. Shit needs to be locked down during the Biden admin or it's game over, man.

frankly, Democrats should vote with the assumption in the back of their mind that the GOP will do everything in their power not to count their vote. that means voting in-person (safely), dropping off ballots if possible, double checking to make sure it was received.

it's fucked that we're in this position but i would pretty much say anybody who hasn't mailed a ballot back yet should consider not mailing it back at this point and either spoiling the ballot and voting in person, or dropping it off if that's allowed in your state.

sadly...there will be those that don't and aren't counted but if we can minimize that number, that helps.

god it just makes me so fucking angry and is exhausting.

FWIW, I think a lot of dems have been operating under just that assumption. I mean, I opted to drop off my ballot (and briefly enter a building other than my home for the first time since March) rather than mailing it in specifically because of the DeJoy shit. A lot of the surge in early voting seems to be a direct reaction to likely GOP fuckery. It just remains to be seen if the surge is gonna be enough to effectively curtail it.

It may be worth noting again that Democrats seem to be sending in their mail ballots considerably sooner than Republicans. Democrats are +27.5% on returned ballots so far, but a narrower +12.7% on ballots requested but not yet returned.https://t.co/Ii5lBCeY9j

— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 27, 2020

I'm in line to vote early in person. Probably a three hour wait, last day to do this in PA. Talk about voter suppression

Yesterday was the day we were supposed to mail our huge stack of postcards to Texas (fwiw I think they were designed to arrive *after* election day, a second wave thanking people for voting after a first wave of bazillions imploring people to vote). It was tough to drop them all in the closest box, which was more or less full! I'm not sure I'd seen that before. It was after the scheduled pickup time, too, so, nervous, I made sure to walk back in an hour and make sure it had been picked up, and indeed it was.

I'm also sleep-deprived and furious that the pigs (yes, they're pigs) murdered a mentally ill neighbor yesterday evening. I'm missing therapy for this, and I need that appointment right now.

What are the many things they could have done?

― Change Display Name: (stevie), Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:11 AM bookmarkflaglink

obama could've forced garland onto the court with a recess appointment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_appointment

But voter suppression leads to viral videos of people dancing in line and that's supposed to warm our hearts!

(xpost)

xp to neanderthal (and nate silver), yes that is somewhat encouraging, but the court's decision means that they're slamming the door on tens of thousands of ballots that favor the dems by 13 points.

xpost <3 table - that story was fucked up

That is horrific, table. Thank you for voting.