"Will you shut up, man?" US Politics October 2020

Some xposts, but re likability and the posts from Dan S, sure. Biden is more likable than Trump. Also most people in the US have the intelligence and media literacy of a sodden bag of pop rocks.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/10/11/unofficial-ballot-drop-boxes-popping-up-throughout-the-state-worry-elections-officials/

What do I know, I'm still stumped by that 42% of ride or die Trumpers that will vote that way all the way into the fucking grave.

Why does Trump still have a similar "approval rating" as he did when his presidency began? Because people taken in by cults or cons can only admit they'd been thus "taken" at great harm to their self-regard. It's unlikely they'd want to admit that... 1/

— Rick Perlstein (@rickperlstein) October 11, 2020

It is kind of weird to me that people think Trump voters have been "taken." They are pretty much getting exactly what they paid for.

I dunno, there is an overlap, at least in my circle, between Trumpers and people who have fallen for MLM scams and in one case, actually fell for a version of the Nigerian scam.

I think there are actually people who think he's a successful businessman, or not a racist, or just a joker, or otherwise is not what he pretty obviously is (stupid, obnoxious, lazy, reckless, and so on). People so unplugged from reality (per Ianucci) that's they've constructed their own. And once you've been pushed that far, it's got to be hard to be brought back, let alone have any sort of dramatic naked lunch moment of clarity. It's hard to convince someone they've been conned because the point of the con is to convince someone they *haven't* been conned.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/10/11/unofficial-ballot-drop-boxes-popping-up-throughout-the-state-worry-elections-officials/

― Walter Draggedman (stevie), Monday, October 12, 2020 7:22 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Some useful context about this:

So...people are talking about the GOP ballot boxes in California as a GOP vote fraud thing. But it's not. It's a *bonkers conspiracy nut* thing.

This is a story of Republicans suppressing their own vote by refusing to trust officially sanctioned ballot boxes. Short thread: /1 pic.twitter.com/qWrYyO3cQw

— David Atkins (@DavidOAtkins) October 12, 2020

It is kind of weird to me that people think Trump voters have been "taken." They are pretty much getting exactly what they paid for.

MAGA hat: $20
MAGA flag: $75
Owning the libs: priceless

how much is it to rent libs

I lease with an option to buy

Most libs will let you live rent-free in their heads iirc.

They tend to squat.

It is kind of weird to me that people think Trump voters have been "taken." They are pretty much getting exactly what they paid for.

thing is, sometimes when you get conned, you do get exactly what you paid for - it just doesn't work out like you were promised.

Biden's up 10.6 and sitting at 52.3% in the RealClearPolitics average. I believe that's the highest vote share that a candidate has ever held in the RCP average in the year of an electionhttps://t.co/NvMmhsdpFA

— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) October 12, 2020

They are pretty much getting exactly what they paid for.

^^^this. They have Supreme Court justices threatening Roe v. Wade and gay marriage, and gov't hasn't taken away their assault rifle collections. All is happy and well in MAGA town.

These Oscar the Grouch motherfuckers wouldn't know 'happy and well' if it bit them on the ass. They'd stil be angry and aggrieved if they got their way 100% of the time.

OTM, all of them are members of the Future Victims Society of America, first and foremost

there is an overlap, at least in my circle, between Trumpers and people who have fallen for MLM scams and in one case, actually fell for a version of the Nigerian scam.

The modern conservative movement has 100 percent gone hand in hand with scam operators of all kinds from pretty much its inception. Direct-mail titan Richard Viguerie is the most obvious example, but also all the evangelical MLM stuff with Pat Robertson, etc. It makes sense that an actual con man as president was the eventual result.

They have Supreme Court justices threatening Roe v. Wade and gay marriage, and gov't hasn't taken away their assault rifle collections. All is happy and well in MAGA town.

i think that oversimplifies things.

yes, they were supposed to get a ban on abortion and get to keep their guns. but along with that was an implicit promise that the left and democrats would be blown away by the strength and charisma and endless winning of trump, etc, that we'd have to admit that all it really took was an iconoclast who with the ability to pull off deals you wouldn't believe, etc

All is happy and well in MAGA town? i beg to differ. i think they're feeling more alienated and "oppressed" than ever before, right now. i think they're 30 days away from ripping each other apart

xposts, old lunch and el tomboto made the same point

my mom was the biggest trump fan out there, and even she felt betrayed by him earlier this year. it was for a really dumb reason (there were a couple days in march where trump took covid seriously, and that confused my mom, who still thinks covid is a hoax), but there was really ANGUISH and confusion in her voice, then. anguish over trump betraying her. she ran back into his arms a few days later, when trump resumed his disinformation campaign on covid.

but that's the con and the conned, right there - it is extremely difficult for people to admit that they were completely wrong, that they believed a con man. when they do try to break away from it, it's really hard and disorienting for them. if they can't believe this version of the truth that everyone else around them also believes, then who can they believe? certainly not the angry liberals (their own children) who showed no understanding for their white evangelical suffering and oppression. it's easier just to stay in the cult, for real.

On the one hand, I can understand in the abstract the appeal of someone who just constantly tells you what you want to hear, but on the other hand, latching onto that shit like a pacifier ultimately just makes you an adult baby.

These Oscar the Grouch motherfuckers wouldn't know 'happy and well' if it bit them on the ass. They'd stil be angry and aggrieved if they got their way 100% of the time.

Right. It's not enough for them to get what they want - they also want you (us) NOT to get what we want.

Though, if I were to be completely honest, I confess I kinda feel the same way about them.

Put roughly, that style of politics has caused untold suffering. And yeah, there is a dark part of my heary that wants its proponents to suffer. Not proud of it, but it is there.

xp to old lunch

i think my last words to my mom were something along those lines.

sorry to always make things about my parents and white evangelicals. i know that's not the whole world or the whole explanation. but yeah, i think for a lot of people, they grew up literally worshipping an imaginary, all-powerful being that promises nothing less than eternal happiness for the good and eternal suffering for the bad. it's not much of a leap to go to anything else, from there

Something I've always noticed and pointed out is that almost on principle Americans are maddeningly contrarian. It's almost like a chaotic correction failsafe, and partly explains how pretty consistently in the modern era we go from, say, reelecting Nixon/Reagan/Bush in large numbers and for no good reason but then immediately go the other direction. One of my favorite stories, one that has stuck with me since I think 5th grade (so, a long while ago) was from a teacher who told us of her next door neighbor, a retired teetotal nun, who apparently, the day after Prohibition was passed, got totally smashed and went out on the street shouting something like "*nobody* tells me what to do!" That's America, in all its crazy contradictions.

Which is to say, I can totally see some of the same people that supported Trump and his judges out on the street protesting the repeal of the ACA/Roe, etc. That's part of the con right there. "Yeah, I wanted the ACA overturned, because Obama and unconstitutional and socialism and the lying media, but I had no idea it would hurt me and my family and friends and everyone I know! Boo!"

I don't know how much a Trumper gives a shit about judges; that seems more like what a "traditional conservative" focuses on and thinks Trump can serve as their useful idiot to provide. The Mexican-fincanced wall was the big, tangible thing Trump promised…

Well, there are Trumpers, and then there are Trumpers by proxy, the people who don't like him but still vote for him because of his policies. Not the racist stuff, heavens no, or the cruel or reckless stuff. Just the other stuff. Like ... taxes? The economy?

KM how did you mom feel when Trump wound up actually getting COVID if she thinks it's a hoax?

Right. It's not enough for them to get what they want - they also want you (us) NOT to get what we want.

Though, if I were to be completely honest, I confess I kinda feel the same way about them.

Put roughly, that style of politics has caused untold suffering. And yeah, there is a dark part of my heary that wants its proponents to suffer. Not proud of it, but it is there.

― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, October 12, 2020 11:20 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

The truly fucked thing about conservatives is: they can already pretty much live according to their stated principles, but it just isn't fun unless they're imposing those principles upon everyone else. It's not enough to personally decide not to have abortions because you have to make the decision for every other person in the country for some twisted reason.

To the extent that they aren't infringing upon others, I'm all for allowing conservatives to live however they want to live in their own private lives. But that's just never enough for them.

c'mon, the current usa president is the "fun" face of normal Republican policies, in the way that little Bush was their "folksy" face and Reagan their "glamorous" face. But those policies are always the same: white supremacy, kleptocracy, war. They may sell those policies differently, but everyone knows what the policies are.

xposts
we haven't spoken in a few months now.

last we spoke, she thought it was a hoax, but my dad had a very different belief. he was posting facebook messages with hundreds of likes and shares that said that "As a former Emergency Safety Director of a large hospital", he believed that everyone was going to get Covid, that there was no point of trying to do anything to prevent it, like wearing a mask...and oh yeah, also that some people in the world are "unclean" and the "unclean" will get sicker and die more quickly than the "clean". he then concluded with the following:

I stand firm that when Abba Father made us (his seed) in secret, He made our immune system perfect and designed to be among the mixed peoples and all their poor health habits. Abba Father does commands us not to hide in caves or crevices. He commands us to stand for His Torah and not to hide or keep our light under a bush basket. Yes, this virus can kill but it is so weak picking on those immune systems that are already compromised so I do tell those type of people to keep socially distanced, keep hydrated, keep washing hands, keep hands and fingers out of our body openings, and at times, wear a mask. But for the 99% they should absolutely never wear a mask. HaSatan and his minions are ruling the world right now but as [my Uncle] would say, "Yeshua's about had it with the evil in this world and He is coming back to clean His house." Amein.

...

Once again, I am so very sorry, KM.

don't feel sorry for me. feel sorry for my parents. they are so oppressed, it's really hard for them

Abba Father does commands us to dance, and to dive, and to have the time of our lives.

keep hands and fingers out of our body openings

so not gonna happen

But those policies are always the same: white supremacy, kleptocracy, war. They may sell those policies differently, but everyone knows what the policies are.

The Trump era has made me more aware than ever of being part of a long-running struggle in this country that has taken a lot of different dimensions but basically runs from its founding, and is essentially over who the country is for. The fight to make it for — open to, accessible to, fair to — more people and more kinds of people, people who are not only white males, has been the animating principle for social justice warriors (a phrase I use positively) from the beginning. We've made a lot of progress on that front overall, but every fight is still hard and the resistance is always strong and the chance of losing ground already gained is always there.

And it makes me feel better about Trump to understand him in that context, as a particularly grotesque manifestation of long-running tendencies. Yes he's terrible but also lots of have things have been terrible, and many of them have been overcome.

keep hands and fingers out of our body openings

no more wiping or teeth brushing!

wtf is going on here

Perhaps the most interesting result: Gary Peters (D) holds just a 1 point lead over John James (R), 43-42, in the race for US Senate in Michigan, down from a 10 point lead in June

— Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) October 12, 2020

That is not good.

it's one poll but apparently schumer's (?) PAC is sending more money there than anywhere else, which is ominous

(that's the result for a sample where biden is up 10 which makes it more concerning)

Yeah, I just donated. Not taking over the Senate if you lose that seat in all likelihood.

it will probably be ok. people split the ticket more in polls than they do when they vote.

Internals show you the Dem strategy: Just get Biden votes to pull straight ticket. James is within 1-3 point of Trump numbers, and the difference is undecideds. (Example: 15% of independents undecided in prez race, 22% in Senate race.)https://t.co/s10wAElENu

— Dave Weigel, Re-Animator (@daveweigel) October 12, 2020

still!

it's a weird race, because lots of people are "unfamiliar" with both candidates, but james ran in 2018 against stabenow too, you'd think voters would know who he is.

tipsy that’s a great post.

Climate change didn’t really become a public issue until 1988.

Back To The Future came out in 1985

Mad Max 2 came out in 1981 btw

Did Mad Max 2 specify that the preceding apocalypse that it was supposed to have taken place after was anthropogenic climate change?

it's been a while, but i thought it was just "oil scarcity"

J.G. Ballard wrote a bunch of books about a world pillaged by climate disasters in the 60s

I'm sure we can dig deeper into the past and find even earlier examples of fictional depictions of dystopian futures driven by climate change but using that as a marker of when people started discussing climate change as a mainstream political issue would probably be dumb.