People that you've never heard of, people that are in the dark shadows -- US Politics September 2020

if i had to guess, that suggests that he has more on his mind than trump losing. there are lots of rumors swirling about him siphoning off the campaign financing to personal ends

in order to drain the swamp it was necessary to create another larger swamp to drain it into

MSNBC says this report is sending "shockwaves through the White House."

I find that very hard to believe--surely they've known for years this was coming out sooner or later.

But Brad seemed like such a nice young man!

It's always the greed. Brad, despite siphoning off millions, no doubt invested those millions in some stupid scheme.

As I said, 750 is somehow more offensive than 0

Well that was quick — the Biden team just released their first ad on the reporting released today on Trump’s taxes in the @nytimes pic.twitter.com/Cw51FUof8g

— Grace Panetta (@grace_panetta) September 28, 2020

The NYT tax story is really a breakthrough in reporting and presentation. It's thorough and dense for those looking to parse details, but there's one punchline detail that folks will remember for a long time: $750.

— Ryan Mac 🙃 (@RMac18) September 28, 2020

i've already had 3 or four friends use as their statuses "I paid more in taxes than that in 2016 and 2017!" and those kindsa points are spreading.

that....isn't a bad way to illuminate further the ridiculousness of it.

civilian friends of mine who aren't rich paid more in 2016 and 2017 than the President. not because he didn't pay any, but cos heo nly paid $750.

caek otm

tomorrow's news - Trump resigns.

Pence is promoted to President.

Pence pardons Trump and makes him his VP.

Pence resigns.

Trump is now President.

Trump nominates Pence as his VP.

#SCsen:
Graham (R-inc) 45% (+1)
Harrison (D) 44%@YouGovAmerica/@CBSNewsPoll, LV, 9/22-25https://t.co/u7KYVZX1Tr

— Political Polls (@Politics_Polls) September 27, 2020

he won't lose, but what if he did...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/25/lindsey-graham-begs-for-cash-421952

I just kicked in $10 to Graham's opponent, Harrison. I want Lindsey Graham sweating bullets when the confirmation hearings start.

https://t.co/RUQxbxIXUE pic.twitter.com/ByWCvCc4n0

— Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) September 28, 2020

As I said, 750 is somehow more offensive than 0

I think it's more insulting, in a way. Someone who owes zero, we all know about tax write-offs and whatever. But 750 means that he's claiming some paltry amount of income, which just seems ridiculous.

it's like why a penny tip is more insulting than stiffing the waiter

idk for me it’s more the confirmation that there’s the hidden lever or the secret handshake that gets you that deal

not the amount, not the math of how it works out but the deal that made it “ok”

you live your whole life knowing thats how it works, but seeing it in writing is just

xps:

US banks won't lend Trump money since the early aughts. Most of his loans appear to be through Deutsche Bank's US private wealth management business. And why would Deutsche Bank lend to a notorious deadbeat?

ForensicNews.net: Deutsche Bank’s loans to Donald Trump were underwritten by Russian state-owned VTB Bank

Hard to say where Trump's actual net worth stands. Without consideration of debt, Forbes goes property by property and still gets $2.5 billion. Much is minority interests in properties with reasonable assessments, and Forbes isn't counting intangibles like whatever value the Trump brand may still have. So if Trump's personal liabilities are limited to the $413 million debt due in the next 4 years, + maybe IRS clawback of a $72 million refund the IRS is auditing, he'll still have a more comfortable retirement than any of us can hope for.

However, the NYT piece to my knowledge doesn't mention any longer maturity debt. Supposedly it's just the first of many planned features from the tax returns. And Trump still faces potential liability from the thousand+ civil cases. My worthless guess, between the $250 million tangible net worth the NYT reported in 2005, property appreciation, and ill-gotten gains, he could still be in the higher 9 digits.

what’s interesting is that he’s utterly worthless

tomorrow's news - Trump resigns.

Pence is promoted to President.

Pence pardons Trump and makes him his VP.

Pence resigns.

Trump is now President.

Trump nominates Pence as his VP.

― LaRusso Auto (Neanderthal), Monday, 28 September 2020 05:11 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

We feed the cats to the rats, the rats to the cats, and get the skins for free!

Now get this...

I could actually see Neanderthal's scenario playing out, except for the last step - Trump would swap in the My Pillow guy or some other toadie that was more sufficiently loyal than Pence, just because he could.

there's zero chance that once Pence is President that he doesn't tell Trump to go fuck himself and name Mother as his VP.

Mother do ya think they'll try to break
My balls

i can't imagine this level of tax evasion is in any sense legal

Nixon did some of that

i like the detail of the $72 million dollar tax refund.

lol

this country is such a joke. i'm sure plenty of other rich people basically do this.

also the fact that his stupid tv show was one of his few profitable ventures. the whole real estate/hotel empire apparently is just bleeding money constantly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAVl_IJV5eI

it's also possible that the massive losses the golf courses, etc, are incurring is fraudulent and a way to reduce his taxable income.

he could be hiding some of the revenue from those places. i wouldn't be surprised. the huge losses he keeps claiming seem really convenient.

i can't imagine this level of tax evasion is in any sense legal

yeah the lede a lot of people seem to be going with is "somehow this is all legal" (or, if you're FOX, "PATHETIC NYT BOMBSHELL REVEALS NO CRIME"), but the take I've heard from the two people I know who do business internationally is "there's a lot of outright fraud here and it's fucking insane the IRS didn't catch it earlier"

have heard that perhaps his decision to reopen everything as soon as possible may be influenced by the fact that he is broke

I mean Biden may wanna suggest that at the debate. just a thought

It's been so frustrating to see even some usually well meaning libs on Twitter hand-waving this way as "this just shows how badly written our tax code is". Well, yes, of course, but that doesn't come close to explain all of this.

have heard that perhaps his decision to reopen everything as soon as possible may be influenced by the fact that he is broke

― frogbs, Monday, September 28, 2020 10:15 AM

makes sense all his business interests are in the sectors hit hardest by the shutdown

i think it's weird you can subsidize a bunch of failing businesses with profitable businesses and then claim income "losses" so you don't need to pay taxes on the profits from the proftiable businesses.

Viewed from a purely political lens, is it more important that this story shows that Trump is incompetent (bad at business) or that he's corrupt (plays by different rules)? At first glance, the corruption seems like an objectively bigger deal, and aligns with the message that Trump only cares about himself. But for voters who trust Trump on the economy because of the myth that he's a successful businessman, I wonder if the fact that he's lost so much money effectively undercuts that belief in any way.

Like, there are some people who are going to think Trump is smart for not paying taxes (as Trump himself said in 2016), like he knows how to game the system. But the chronic losses and debt point to weakness and failure: that he doesn't know what he's doing, that he's "in over his head" (as Michelle Obama said at the DNC), etc.

I want to know why the issue of that likely fraudulent 70 million dollar tax refund has been in audit since 2011. 9 years!? Really?

fwiw, I'm pro "this won't matter," both because it's true and because the opposite is not a noble or even neutral stance. it's false reassurance, which has consequences; if you have unsupported faith that something -- for instance, the mueller report -- will save the day, then you'll be less inclined to take further action

charlie brown: based on overwhelming past experience, you're just going to pull the football up
lucy: stop being defeatist! cynics like you are the problem!

why do we only have this binary, either it does nothing, or it takes him down?

it's fairly certain to hurt him in the election, not with Republicans, but with independent voters, and with Democrats he previously siphoned. There's a huge middle here.

I don't think this is going to change the narrative dramatically, but it represents another large chunk cut into his foundation.

pretty sure the anti-Trump faction, that includes us, have an internal fire that is permanently lit, I don't think us seeing this news and going "wow, this is big" will suddenly extinguish that

xpost

the fraud and corruption are the big issues here, as is the fact that he is in debt so certain people have leverage over him, including foreign powers presumably.

the fact that his businesses "lost money" doesn't matter because he found a way to profit off the losses, via fraud. he was never the kind of businessman who built profitable ventures. he was always the kind that profitted through wheeling and dealing and dicking people over.

I want to know why the issue of that likely fraudulent 70 million dollar tax refund has been in audit since 2011. 9 years!? Really?

I mean, I'm guessing because Trump has stonewalled, delayed and ignored every request for more information. And since he's become president, it's probably even easier for him to push this to the backburner. I think it says more about the IRS than Trump. tbh.

fwiw, I'm pro "this won't matter,"

Invincibility in the real world lasts until it suddenly doesn't. I don't know if this story will be the one that puts re-election for Trump firmly out of reach, but there's no reason it can't be the one.

btw, i've seen into the future and what happens to him later in the decade when the loans come in is funny. he loses everything and has to start from scratch by living modestly. he moves into a shared apartment in brooklyn with a couple of Pratt students and it becomes the subject of a reality show. the young people take him to coffee shops, indie art spaces, record launch parties etc like some kind of freakish accessory, similar to how some people walk around the city with giant iguanas on leashes.

Let's think of The One Story. Think of the dozens of smaller pricks in the arm felt by the few remaining independents in the last few weeks.