People that you've never heard of, people that are in the dark shadows -- US Politics September 2020

I had something typed up about how conservatives were cowards and will yap all day about taking to the streets and then not do shit but then I remembered how they stormed the governors house with rifles in Michigan so yeah, I don't know. I think Biden is going to win the election, but it's gonna be ugly and drawn out, and I do believe Trump is going to directly incite violence in the process. But I feel like it's not gonna be more than a few dozen "isolated incidents"

― frogbs, Thursday, September 17, 2020 2:07 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think this is otm, but if it's not, then we at least will all know the correct answer to the Are You Thinking of Buying a Gun thread.

on a completely unrelated note,

Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan (D) accused President Donald Trump and Attorney General Bill Barr of “tyranny” late Wednesday suggesting the pair had warped the Justice Department into a “political weapon” used on those who speak out against the Trump administration.

The comments follow a New York Times report on Wednesday that revealed Attorney General Bill Barr asked the Justice Department’s civil rights division to explore bringing criminal charges against Durkan for allowing residents to establish a police-free protest zone earlier this summer.

According to the report, Barr also told federal prosecutors to consider sedition charges for rioters and those committing violent crimes at protests in recent months.

“Today’s report is chilling and the latest abuse of power from the Trump administration,” Durkan said in a statement issued late Wednesday, adding: “the Department of Justice cannot become a political weapon operated at the behest of the President to target those who have spoken out against this administration’s actions.”

The refusal in the face of Covid by a not-insignificant portion of the population to comply with even the most basic lifesaving measures—their own lives included-has me feeling much, much more pessimistic about the peaceful transition of power.

Another way to look at this is: these people are so fucking lazy that they've opted to grouse endlessly on Facebook rather than take very basic measures to safeguard their own health and well-being. If they can't be bothered protect the families they care for so very much by wearing a goddamn mask, they aren't going to protect them from the godless libruls by peeling themselves off the couch to participate in an interminable organized offensive.

I think Biden is going to win the election, but it's gonna be ugly and drawn out, and I do believe Trump is going to directly incite violence in the process. But I feel like it's not gonna be more than a few dozen "isolated incidents"

― frogbs, Thursday, September 17, 2020 2:07 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is where I tend to come down on the matter. the real downside though is that if Trumps "wins" in an exceedingly shady way, I don't think there's going to be some massive popular uprising either. there will probably be more violence in that scenario though because even if we get something on the level of the women's march from 2017 I think you'll see a lot of vigilantism and state power directed at putting those protests down in a very violent way because people are going to be convinced it's the early stirrings of a coup.

At the same time, as inexcusably bad as things seem, we have a long way to go to even match this country's low points, let alone exceed them. Now, how long it could take for us to get down there is another matter.

i do recognize the low points, and i recognize that as i sit here comfortably in a chair listening to any song, ever, because it's all on the internet, in air conditioning, that it could be worse. but still, this feels like the frog boiling in water thing, right now. barr is doing stuff on a weekly basis that would have been an enormous instantaneous career-ending scandal like...4 years ago. and nothing is happening. the accountability is gone, they took over DOJ and no one has been able to do anything to suppress barr, as far as i can tell? maybe there's some even worse things that could have happened but didn't, that we wouldn't know about? but the seattle mayor's statement "the Department of Justice cannot become a political weapon operated at the behest of the President to target those who have spoken out against this administration’s actions" isn't strong enough - it HAS become a political weapon! it may not have HIT her directly yet, but they've loaded it up and are aiming at her?

Also, if Biden wins, at least some of these sacks of dogshit will recognize that they might actually be held accountable for behaving like belligerent assholes without Papa Don at their back.

The refusal in the face of Covid by a not-insignificant portion of the population to comply with even the most basic lifesaving measures—their own lives included-has me feeling much, much more pessimistic about the peaceful transition of power.

Another way to look at this is: fashion > health

I do believe Trump is going to directly incite violence in the process. But I feel like it's not gonna be more than a few dozen "isolated incidents"

In a way it is a blessing that there are 50 state governments and state governors, because this attenuates the police powers of Trump. His force of LEOs he sent to Portland had to be scraped up from among ICE, Border Patrol, US Marshals, ATF and several other agencies. The US military is not about to get involved in street fighting for him and the National Guard is distributed among all those 50 governors.

This election is going to test the system very hard, but it would take more than some civilian militias and boogaloo boys to start a civil war this time around. There still needs to be more hollowing out before the system collapses.

I am trying to avoid talking about what-ifs because acknowledging the capacity for violence around the election or 45 digging his Cuban heels in manufactures consent for both of those things.

In other happier news I met a fellow American with parents in Florida who remotely child-locked Fox off their cable package because he had access to their Comcast account. The parents are not computer people and just think it’s broken :)))

Another way to look at this is: fashion > health

Yes, because these Wal-Mart shoppers are soooo fashionable.

To be clear, I'm not predicting a complete lack of violent response if Biden wins. This is still the USA in 2020, after all. I just don't see widespread armed insurrection happening. Trumpists have had four years of pretty much unfettered freedom to show their asses and, aside from just making the country worse in a very broad sense, they haven't undertaken any substantive acts of solidarity. I don't see them suddenly getting their shit together on election night.

I know I brought it up on one of these threads, but the fact that these people with guns, with ill-intent, with endless gripes against the forces of liberalism (which is to say, progress) exist and are not going away, whether or not they have always been here, is a huge, huge problem. The question remains how far they are willing to go, and how much others will accept. We have seen in the past what people are *not* willing to accept. The draft, for example, though that fight took years. Or (legal) segregation. But right now I think the biggest, cruelest crux is that those who are hurting or being hurt the most are the ones who were hurting already. The working poor, immigrants, people struggling in the best of times who are being made to struggle even more. These people need help, and they're not getting it, but that is a larger societal problem. So I do wonder what the "... and then they came for me" moment would be for the relative secure, those who are *not* hurting or not hurting nearly as much. Put another way, what right do we have now whose reversal would cause the dam to break? Abortion? Even that I'm not sure would do it. Guns? Possibly on the other side. Other than that, I'm not sure what would do it.

I am trying to avoid talking about what-ifs because acknowledging the capacity for violence around the election or 45 digging his Cuban heels in manufactures consent for both of those things.

if i understand you correctly, that's exactly what i can't come to grips with. by talking about it, we unintentionally normalize it as a possible outcome, just by discussing it to death. by the time it happens, we know a version of the story already and it's no longer shocking in the same way as it would be if it came out of nowhere.

but the part i can't figure out is whether not talking about it is an acceptable response. i don't have a better idea! and maybe it's the early 21st century internal bias of always being told that having more data is better, information is power, etc. maybe sometimes, it's actually not? but even then, where does that get anyone?

Wal-Mart shoppers are soooo fashionable.

"You don't need wealth to be a gourmand. There are thousands of gourmands of potatoes."

-- Albert E. Marley --

The racks upon racks of t-shirts printed with cute slogans and screen printed images at Wal-Mart are fashions, too.

This is quite sickening. (Sorry if already posted.)

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/north-carolina-is-already-rejecting-black-voters-mail-in-ballots-more-often-than-white-voters/

I’ve been going with ‘weird gun nuts are trying to manufacture consent for some epic bullshit’ because basic-bitch Midwesterners can be put off things if enough pepole call those things ‘weird’. Also none of my affected family members who vote GOP have any time for guns.

the part i can't figure out is whether not talking about it is an acceptable response.

the talking part is a distant second place in importance to organizing resistance now, ahead of the election. that is the best response possible.

if it makes you guys feel any better, if a civil war happens they're going to try to kill me first so you'll at least have some time to find a good bolthole

bringing criminal charges against Durkan for allowing residents to establish a police-free protest zone earlier this summer.

btw we still have no idea who told the police and national guard to abandon the precinct, except that the now-resigned police chief has declined to acknowledge that it was her

But but the pArtIeS aRe Teh SaMe

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/16/oregon-fires-armed-civilian-roadblocks-police

Trump announces that he will soon form a "National Commission to Promote Patriotic Education."

— Felicia Sonmez (@feliciasonmez) September 17, 2020

He reassures his base by tossing out symbolic affirmations every single day. Since they are just symbolic affirmations, he doesn't even have to do most of the things he mentions he's 'about to do any day now'.

^^^ this is otm, but that's still a terrifying sounding commission

Howard Zinn called out for "left-wing indoctrination"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/

I haven't read of all of this, but the idea there could have been a free mask program administered by the post office BACK IN APRIL wherein every household in the country would have received 5 free reusables, but of course it was blocked by the White House as to not raise panic is pissing me off something serious rn.

it is enraging

Ms. Dannehy poses a looming further threat to Mr. Barr. She didn’t just withdraw from the investigation; she resigned from the department entirely. That means Mr. Barr can’t muzzle her — and, in turn, she can warn Congress and the rest of us about what prompted such a dramatic move by a highly regarded career public servant who had previously managed to oversee the investigation into the politically fraught firings of seven U.S. attorneys in the George W. Bush administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/opinion/trump-barr-justice-department.html

The subhead is "Nora Dannehy’s resignation looks like part of a pattern that could be problematic for Bill Barr and President Trump."

It's kind of strange after the impeachment and countless episodes of damning testimony that anyone at this point thinks "warning Congress" will pose a problem for Bill Barr. Maybe when the cows come home?

not only is it problematic, it may raise questions about propriety

if it makes you guys feel any better, if a civil war happens they're going to try to kill me first so you'll at least have some time to find a good bolthole

― shout-out to his family (DJP), Thursday, September 17, 2020 12:00 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It doesn't make me feel any better.

I'm not going to go over this again, but I'm glad that my Brown husband and I know how to live in the woods off-grid, and also glad that we "don't dial 911," as the saying goes. Not that I think things will get wild where we live— a majority minority city.

I feel like one likely outcome is that Trump loses the election, finally caves after fighting it for a few months because he gets bored, starts bilking his cult through OAN while the rest of us are subjected to a constant barrage of, "oh you thought it was bad? well here's what else just came to light" news stores.

the obvious reality is even with Biden winning, the idea that society's temperature is going to cool any right after is pretty much a farce.

I'm getting more tense about things the closer we get to election time.

Trump loses the election, finally caves after fighting it for a few months because he gets bored, starts bilking his cult through OAN

Yeah I would be fine with all this. Thrilled, in fact.

In the spirit of #onethread, in deep contrast to our trip to a more rural (former coal-mining) area in PA a few weeks ago, I went to do some errands in the 'burbs immediately outside Philly this afternoon— and I didn't see a single Trump sign anywhere. None. All Biden/Harris and Hate Has No Home Here signs and rainbow flags. We're talking the Main Line, one of the wealthier suburban areas in the US.

This may have already been posted somewhere, but I'll take my bright spots where I can get them:

No...these selfish assholes do not have my permission or blessing to use my song for their moronic cause. #cuttheshit https://t.co/LPDAjSszbf

— Dee Snider🇺🇸 (@deesnider) September 16, 2020

Senate Republicans signal openness to working with Biden

I believe them. Why wouldn't you?

There's some weird twisted irony (or something) in the fact that a) every ex-Trump person who speaks out now is described as a "disgruntled former employee" (Pence's person being the latest), b) in the long-standing joke, that's a phrase usually applied to postal workers, c) Trump hates the post office.

I love the "disgruntled employee" line, which is used about every whistleblower in public or private sectors. It's so tautological. Obviously they're disgruntled!

wish gruntled workers would stand up to trump

Joe Rogan lies to his millions of listeners that left-wing activists are starting forest fires in Oregon. This dangerous claim has been completely debunked. pic.twitter.com/qbNK9GQB9h

— Alex Paterson (@AlexPattyy) September 17, 2020

my position on Joe Rogan has...evolved

fuck that guy forever

is that the actual joe rogan logo, at the end of that clip?

More details on the Hate America blacklist

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2020/09/trump-left-wing-indoctrination-child-abuse-1619-project.html

"America is an exceptional country," DeVos said. "And we know this because there are millions of people the world around who want to come here, who want to be part of the American idea."

Those people should, of course, go fuck themselves but still

god I'm so sick of these tree hugging liberals who then set fire to trees post-hug

"One GOP senator predicted that a Republican-controlled Senate could be beneficial to Biden because it would give him a buffer from progressives in his party"

This idea, that voters ought to divide federal power between the major parties so as to provide a brake on either one exerting too much unified power, is deeply entrenched in US politics and strongly appeals to centrists, moderates and fools. It's one of the main reasons that national politics have reached complete stasis.

Every tree I hug I kill

i kill everything i hug

Distant xpost to Table, but I would not expect Main Line/anyplace right around Philly to necessarily be Trumpy, wealthy or no. Lower Merion, for example, went 75 percent to 21 percent Clinton in 2016. I think Radnor went similarly, so I assume the rest of the Main Line and other inner Philly burbs largely votes blue. But someone else probably knows better than I.

my parents live quite near the Main Line and yeah it's pretty blue. In fact they've gone from tax-hating Republicans when they moved there 22 years ago to canvassing for Dems