uh, probably a more potent exhibit A would be some of Jordan's posts and gawker articles ... but ... this isn't my fight.
― sarahell, Friday, 11 September 2020 01:31 (four years ago) link
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JegHNEhknlsPMwU/source.gif
― Neanderthal, Friday, 11 September 2020 01:35 (four years ago) link
as in -- it was the subject of a lot of the first part of this thread -- not to be a dick about it, but it, in itself, is indicative of behavior shifts and attitude shifts, etc.
― sarahell, Friday, 11 September 2020 01:44 (four years ago) link
tell me more about the racist denim sites and if they have a rivary with Summit Ice
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 11 September 2020 01:53 (four years ago) link
A Trump speechwriter used to post to a Japanese selvage denim forum IIRC, then he got canned for being too openly racist and wrote a book about menswear
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 11 September 2020 01:55 (four years ago) link
i'm familiar with that guy, he knew a ton about menswear, too bad he's a lunatic
― call all destroyer, Friday, 11 September 2020 02:10 (four years ago) link
what was his view on sports
― irn-scamp (mh), Friday, 11 September 2020 03:11 (four years ago) link
he doesn’t believe they exist
― ptah el dude (voodoo chili), Friday, 11 September 2020 03:13 (four years ago) link
I don't think people itt are "excusing" those posts, just saying it's possible to be a decent person and still have bad things in your internet past. At least I hope that's true!!
not to say this makes it ok but the internet was kind of a different place in the mid 00's, virtually every "humor" site out there was couched in language like that, it was all a gross competition to see who could write the most twisted offensive shit that would "trigger" their parents. and when I go back to old Something Awful or Maddox posts that I remember used to make me laugh as a teenager I'm horrified at how blatantly awful it is. mainly cuz it's not really funny but also because I can't really find the "ironic" distance in there anymore. btw it wasn't just "edgy" humor sites, it was like...everything. Even the music sites I used to hang out on to learn about King Crimson & Genesis and shit were laden with gratuitous sexism and random slurs.
feels like a few things happened since then. one of course is people grew up and/or maybe experienced something that made these sort of gross comments feel 'real' and therefore unfunny. two was the realization that not all these people were like say Seth MacFarlane, who writes a ton of quote-unquote "ironic" shitty & offensive jokes but generally seems to be progressive "IRL", in fact a lot of these people are straight up monsters and at some point you can't really separate "ironic" racism & sexism from the real thing, which you maybe thought didn't exist in those spaces but very much does (see: Barstool). three is that people actually put names to the posts now, there's no longer that "safety net" of "who gives a shit what I post on the internet, nobody knows who I am and this'll be gone in a year anyway", even a site like ILX which seems to be one of the last bastions of the "old internet" (minus a lot of the gross shit) has a userbase where a lot of people seem to know who each other are, can't just hide behind a username like you used to
― frogbs, Friday, 11 September 2020 14:06 (four years ago) link
Where's my post about betting frogbs' pre-woke period is a slaughterhouse
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 September 2020 15:48 (four years ago) link
So I'm just going to go on record here and say that I never did any of this stuff so many of you are saying 'everyone did,' and am sort of aghast at the idea that the sort of vile bullshit that I'd always tried to avoid was more embraced than I'd ever thought.
That isn't meant as a holier than thou statement or some sort of self-exoneration-- as I've mentioned, I know I've been a vile asshole at moments, as well as posted very NSFW things here and elsewhere. But few if any of my posts engaged in outright sexism, rape apology, or racism, and I feel like I'm losing my mind as people write 'everyone did this stuff.' because no, not everyone did!
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:04 (four years ago) link
Which doesn't mean that people don't deserve to have these lapses forgiven, particularly if they've changed their thoughts and behaviors accordingly...
But to me, Jordan's point about Deadspin's culture of misogyny above is part of what makes the case of Petchesky more shitty. Like, the guy clearly was engaging in violent rape culture edgelordism before he was hired as a staff writer for the site. He never should have been given a platform in the first place! And imo, he shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt now, mostly because he only apologized when he was called out, whereas much of what other posters here are pointing to was a more organic process of growing up, learning from others, and also learning that "edgy" internet culture is tied irrevocably to the worst elements of human nature, and has been since I was in middle school.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:11 (four years ago) link
just ftr: https://adequateman.deadspin.com/casual-cruelty-1829327257
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:18 (four years ago) link
much of what other posters here are pointing to was a more organic process of growing up
well, yeah, most of us don't have editors from right-wing sites looking to make us look bad in public, of course his "process" doesn't appear "organic"
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:37 (four years ago) link
Okay. That does seem like a better response than most.
I still am amazed at I guess the 'reality' that so many embraced this cruel, shitvoid internet that was always repellent af to me. Like I remember friends showing me the racier edges of New Grounds back in middle school and not only thinking that it was disgusting, but also thinking that those friends were fucking losers. Have some of them changed? Sure. And so I guess that Petchesky has changed, as have many of you, and don't deserve my holier than thou shit just because we didn't have the same experience.
I appreciate y'all being patient with me as I think and feel through this.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:38 (four years ago) link
you probably just matured a lot faster than people like me
― frogbs, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:39 (four years ago) link
fwiw I agree that rape jokes are on the extreme end and probably rarer on ILX than in almost any other online space that's been around as long
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:39 (four years ago) link
(not that we all collectively deserve a pat on the head for it or w/ever)
― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:40 (four years ago) link
Why is every frogbs post like
DELETED. PLEASE STOP THIS.
Anyways I think this is why we have American fascism because everyone in my generation had this exact same experience"
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:42 (four years ago) link
fp’d
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:45 (four years ago) link
that post should be deleted
― call all destroyer, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:46 (four years ago) link
Tbf, I was a fat gay punk kid in a public middle school who got a scholarship to a fancy liberal Quaker high school, had a horrible eating disorder, and also had numerous female besties who'd survived sexual assault at some point before high school was over, so I've been pretty much like this for a long time. Don't think it has to do a lot with maturity, necessarily, but probably more to do with environment. I also hardly had a working internet connection at my house growing up.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:50 (four years ago) link
I’m not saying frogbs is wrong in that “white guys into offensive humor have had different experiences changing with the timbre of the last 20 years.” I’m just saying his constant drumming of this as some universal/generational/zeitgeist experience is weird
― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:53 (four years ago) link
congrats for stopping short of spelling out the n-word
― call all destroyer, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:56 (four years ago) link
I've posted on this message board 28,097 times and I think maybe 3 of them have been on that subject
― frogbs, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:57 (four years ago) link
south park is still pretty damn good (when it isn't mischaracterising trans people, its one remaining serious flaw imo) and has rowed back a lot of its y2k-era edginess, or at least moved with the times
― imago, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:59 (four years ago) link
I had a mixed experience. Even up to my mid-20s, there were people in my larger social sphere who would make “edgy” jokes, etc. Other than one guy who seems perpetually stuck in a certain cultural period, I would be completely shocked to hear that from any of them now if I had occasion to run into them socially. One in particular I can think of is a high school drama teacher that seems to be well-liked by all his students
on the other hand, a friend I got back in touch with in recent years has vented about this guy we’d gone to high school with who was very much into queer/punk/arts spaces at the time revealed himself to be a completely unironic racist years after the fact
I try to accept people for who they are now with a cautious eye to the past
― irn-scamp (mh), Friday, 11 September 2020 17:01 (four years ago) link
Friend of Gawker Peter Thiel in the news
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/peter-thiel-donald-trump-white-nationalist-support
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Friday, 11 September 2020 17:30 (four years ago) link
you know, I realized in recent times that even if old gawker had turned into just a site with the insightful, funny articles and political content and had jettisoned the celebrity gossip stuff entirely, Thiel still would have found a lawsuit to work with his vendetta at some point. it was the one thing, but it could have been anything, or death by a thousand cuts
― irn-scamp (mh), Friday, 11 September 2020 17:37 (four years ago) link
they printed one of the slanderous comments I submitted about my favorite NFL franchise so I'm even more in the tank for nu-Deadpsin now.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 11 September 2020 18:23 (four years ago) link
https://adequateman.deadspin.com/i-was-catfished-in-2012-and-i-took-my-anger-out-on-manti-teo-1829355555
― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 11 September 2020 21:30 (four years ago) link
This is a platform for User Generated Content. G/O Media assumes no liability for content posted by Kinja users to this platform.Web Development In New YorkreachabovemediaReach Above Media9/27/18 8:29AM•Filed to:WEB DEVELOPMENT IN NEW YORK13SaveReach Above Media provides premium services of web development in New York and our team focus on quality work and deliver work on right time.
― maura, Friday, 11 September 2020 21:53 (four years ago) link
that's what i got when i clicked on that link
yeah sorry, it was a fake link. joke was supposed to be in the url.
― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 11 September 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
A few years ago I went for a dinner with a colleague and we ended up talking about feminism, at which point I told her that in my teens I exhibited a great deal of internalized misogyny that I was in no position to really understand due to my immaturity and somewhat typical (in this regard, at least) Eastern European upbringing. She was utterly shocked and disgusted when she found out and I was just like… a) based on what we both know of teenage boys in the 90s and early 00s, what were you expecting?, b) I'm telling you this story because I'm still ashamed of my stupidity back then, and c) would it be best to never speak of this to anyone ever again and instead foster the notion that I'm a one-dimensional being whose behaviour has always been and always will be guided by the exact same ethical principles sub specie aeternitatis?
― pomenitul, Friday, 11 September 2020 22:36 (four years ago) link
oh lol i thought it had just been spanfeller'd
― maura, Saturday, 12 September 2020 00:28 (four years ago) link
No idea what that means.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 12 September 2020 01:01 (four years ago) link
that the link had been seasoned with dried leaves
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Saturday, 12 September 2020 01:22 (four years ago) link
Barstool - chaotic evilDefector - chaotic goodThe Ringer - lawful evilGrantland - lawful goodThe Athletic - true neutral
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 12 September 2020 02:00 (four years ago) link
grantland and the ringer are more or less the same people, some of whom are great. but simmons was the same guy both places and it is, of course, not open mic night
― mookieproof, Saturday, 12 September 2020 02:33 (four years ago) link
That's why they're both lawful but Simmons has gotten worse and his influence over the site (and transition to podcast network) has gotten heavier-handed.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Saturday, 12 September 2020 02:41 (four years ago) link
haven't heard about anyone killing themselves over a ringer story
― mookieproof, Saturday, 12 September 2020 03:00 (four years ago) link
lol milo otm
― k3vin k., Saturday, 12 September 2020 03:33 (four years ago) link
Mookie otm
― treeship., Saturday, 12 September 2020 03:41 (four years ago) link
everyone is OTM
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Saturday, 12 September 2020 07:11 (four years ago) link
putting aside any personal feelings i have about, the it athletic is vc funded which is a bad sign for its being at all “good”
― maura, Sunday, 13 September 2020 01:13 (four years ago) link
*about it, the
also mookieproof otm
It's nice that people give enough of a fuck about sports to pay for writing about sports. If only I had made the choice as a small boy to give a fuck about sports, perhaps I would be making the big bucks as a writer today, instead of scrabbling in the gutter for nickels as a *cough, spit* music critic.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 13 September 2020 02:02 (four years ago) link
I doubt anyone outside of ESPN is making big bucks but perhaps these subscription models are allowing more sportswriters to at least make a modest living, which is admittedly a hell of a lot more than can be said for the popcrit hustle.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Sunday, 13 September 2020 02:17 (four years ago) link