Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

the people who need to be told in detail what to do for public health are the same people who don't want to be told what to do.

Because I'm retired and can choose for myself, I've succeeded in staying out of any public spaces enclosed within walls, except for grocery stores since mid-March. The exceptions to this have been so few and so brief as to be negligible. In grocery stores I've masked up since early April.

My sympathy goes out to the masses of working adults who have to struggle with limiting their exposure on a constant ongoing basis. You guys have it much much worse than I do and I know it. The mask issue cuts much deeper for you, too.

not always easy to make a wide arc around somebody if they come towards yo in a confined space. Or if you're both stuck in the same space for a while.
Or ofi there's another nose flasher on the other side of the space you're confined in.

Therre's now officially seats for 8 people on the bottom deck of a bus so they get taken quite fast

wins and Yerac OTM

Where I live hardly anyone is masked outside but it's just not that dense, one is never in an outdoor situation where you can't make that wide arc.

Yeah it’s just a fatal failure of messaging, this idea that anything short of 100% might as well be 0%

Absolutely this, but to be honest this point is just hard to grasp for people and I don't feel like I could come up with messaging that would make it clear.

I thought this explained that point pretty well:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/opinion/coronavirus-schools-tradeoffs.html

Each decision we make to reduce risk helps. Each time we wear a mask, we’re throwing some safety on the pile. Each time we socialize outside instead of inside, we’re throwing some safety on the pile. Each time we stay six feet away instead of sitting closer together, we’re throwing some safety on the pile. Each time we wash our hands, eat apart and don’t spend time in large gatherings of people, we’re adding to the pile.

If the pile gets big enough, we as a society can keep this thing in check.

But rather than focus on the cumulative benefits of individual actions, our attention too often rests on the few who refuse to act safely. We rage online over a couple of people who throw a fit about wearing a mask in a store. We spend far less time being grateful that so many Americans do wear one.

We don’t need everyone to wear a mask. We need more people to wear masks. We need to be willing to wear a mask even if others refuse, because every little bit matters.

wondering how longits goingto take people to get used to having to wait for the cleaners to get on and off the bus before they let passengers on.
Since it seems to be something that people are still not used to and it seems to have been going on for several months if not all 5.

So people have to be told every time that they have to wait. Or act like they must be ahead of you inthe queue if you hang back waiting for them to get on and off before moving for the door.

JUst remembering back in March when one of the girls in Debenhams was stuck with having to wipe down the escalator handrail or maybe it was just seeing it for teh first time. Now seems to be a common place that somebody is cleaning things on taht level.

Attending our first virtual high school open house right now. So inspired by these teachers (so far). Calculus teacher just made a really good observation that so much of school is now silent, since Zoom doesn't really let everyone talk at once. As she pointed out, there is no hum of the classroom, which takes some getting used to.

YES, that New York Times piece was fantastic, and I think people are just... not... hearing it.

I mean, it's pretty bonkers, because everyone wearing a mask very much in essence *is* herd immunity. So all these dum-dums apparently want everyone to get sick because, der, herd immunity, but they can't or won't apply the same principle to a simple action - wearing a mask - that would *stop* lots of people from getting sick. Like, in effect, the mask *is* a vaccine. It won't protect you 100%, 100% of the time, but it will most likely protect enough people to help slow and hopefully stop the rapid and easyspread of this thing. But anyway, god help us, if you can't get people to wear a mask because ... reasons, good luck getting them to get a shot.

everyone wearing a mask very much in essence *is* herd immunity.

I just meant that enough people wearing a mask helps reduce the spread, which in turn helps those who don't wear a mask, just as getting a flu shot (or most other vaccines), even if not 100% of people get the shot, helps those who don't or can't get a shot.

Oh well yeah, I see
All the reduction measures should help, really - not making unnecessary trips included. I guess it's hard to see a direct benefit of being prudent with your own trips/use of masks/distancing/mixing with others/ sanitising your hands on entering shops etc.

The direct benefit is numbers of cases & deaths going down aiui? I guess maybe that's not "direct" in the sense that is a cumulative measure that applies equally to everyone instead of like accruing to an individual--although the tangible direct individual benefit is NOT GETTING COVID.

Put on a mask? What's in it for me? I'm not a LOSER

I wore a mask for 2+ hours yesterday because I drove in a car w someone--windows cracked, both in masks, someone who is at the same level of "precautions" that I am and has been observing them for months. It was fine. We chatted the whole time and tbh I forgot I wear wearing it.

Otoh my boyfriend's kids are at his house right now along with two unrelated school friends being teenagers and not taking any precautions at all (which is why I'm not there). I may not be able to see him for much longer if he doesn't start calculating risks tbh. He's going to be very unhappy when I quarantine him for 14 days after every time he does something dumb.

Everyone's ability to withstand anxiety & scrupulous procedures is different? My bf could handle a temporary situation of great anxiety pretty easily, but he isn't adjusting well to our longer term situation where we have to define a "new normal" baseline of scrupulousness and sustain a lower anxiety level over more time.

had to go to the ER and felt safer there than anywhere else in town (it was also like 2am and I may have been literally the only patient there)

― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Thursday, September 3, 2020 1:45 PM (yesterday)

omg hope you are ok f hazel!! i can't imagine anything minor bringing someone to the ER at 2am :(

Everyone's ability to withstand anxiety & scrupulous procedures is different? My bf could handle a temporary situation of great anxiety pretty easily, but he isn't adjusting well to our longer term situation where we have to define a "new normal" baseline of scrupulousness and sustain a lower anxiety level over more time.

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Friday, September 4, 2020 9:14 AM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

The roles are precisely reversed in our household. My gf has been cautiously and mindfully social on the semi-reg while I've noped out completely on that front, but I seem to have settled more easily into this inarguably-shitty new groove of hunkering down until the dust has cleared. As much as the idea of doing normal everyday stuff almost as if it's just a bemasked version of 2019 makes me anxious on practical grounds, the idea of pretending that things are at all normal right now (however briefly) makes me at least as anxious. I personally find it much easier to cope with all of this by focusing on how fucking marvelous it will be to do normal things again in a COVID-free future as I put my head down and grind through the mediocre and compromised present day.

xps

my partner has been giving rides home to people getting out of the local jail (a national hotspot for covid19) for months now. for a long time, they were only testing incarcerated people there on the way IN to the jail, not on the way out. so basically they'd throw people in close quarters in a covid19 hotspot with a bunch of other people, and then not even bother giving them a test on their way out (along with not giving them any assistance in getting home, not helping locating all the shit they confiscated from them from, releasing them after hours without any money for a cab ride or public transport, etc - seriously, they are fucking bastards).

anyway, obviously i have been very worried about covid19. but she rolls down the windows, everyone wears masks, and they just use common sense. she gets tested every week (chicago has a minimally viable testing system, at least, where you can voluntarily get tests and get results within a few days). things have been ok. really, just wearing a mask and not being in a totally enclosed space - even a car with open windows! - seems to do wonders. it's amazing how much people resist this!

Put on a mask? What's in it for me? I'm not a LOSER

Exactly - I'm unfortunately seeing a few instances of this in my family. Calling them out on it...
It's like people flouting lockdown 'rules' and moaning about how long the rules need to be in place for.

they even make vanity masks for people who don't want to "look like a nerd".

I have a Baphomet mask, a Deicide mask, and a King Diamond one, amongst the surgical and plain cotton ones.

SWANS did the FILTH teeth

My apologies to people who have discomfort around crowds and people and going out at the best of times, but is there still anyone who's not immunocompromised/hi-risk still staying completely indoors? I talked to a neighbor outside yesterday for a while and it helps so much to stay connected.

For me now it's really about figuring out who is on the same "level" of cautiousness as me, and being (cautiously) around those people, outdoors, distanced...it will be different in winter for sure. But many of my friends are taking the subway again...not often, and with masks, sanitizer, obv. My roommate may have to go to physical work in a school soon, with children (shudder), and my bf's kids are going back to part-time physical school soon which will last exactly as long as it takes for cases to cascade and shut down schools again, which seems pretty likely to happen?

Compared to that shit, walking outdoors and talking to people from 10 feet away looks reasonable.

But I've been in a rural area this whole time and even in Brooklyn my neighborhood isn't crowded and I'm not trying to go anywhere there are lots of people. So ymmv with my whole deal.

i'm going out here and there, but not into big crowds, mostly outdoors, and always safely. my mind would have exploded otherwise.

weirdly, that was a pre-requisite for the Moderna phase 3 trial. you can't be self-quarantining to where you never leave the house, as otherwise, they can't really test the efficacy of a vaccine if you never have the potential to come in contact with it. they actually asked me to make sure I was at least leaving the house a few times a week (not suggesting to go into crowds or TRY to get COVID or antyhing, naturally)

We're heading with friends to a farm for the weekend. There are a bunch of us who know one another really well and are, well, "cautious," but I know the farm has its own mask/distancing rules. Not sure how strict they're going to be, but if I have to drive 3 hours to spend a weekend less comfortable than I am at home I admit I'll be a little annoyed. I totally get it, but I'd rather be home or around home with no mask than outdoors in the middle of a field with friends and still made to wear a mask. And I'm the only one that has repeatedly tested positive for antibodies. Lotta good it does me, grumble grumble ...

I'm probably driving 2 other people 1.5 hrs away to swim in a lake tomorrow and then back home again!

"Sir, could you please make sure you lick at least one (1) subway pole per week?"

io, I didn't leave the apt at all for almost 5 months, F went out twice and down to our building's lobby regularly. We were lucky to not have or feel the need. BUT... my first time outside was 18 hours of airports and planes and cars. It was fine. Now I am kind of going outside several times a week to run errands and have met up with one person in their apt.

The subways seem totally fine, at least in off hours.

Also I was mentioning on the slack, but the flu was almost wiped out this past winter in the southern hemisphere because of people in lockdown mode, no tourism, masks.

friend of mine that was hospitalized for COVID months ago says he has the same symptoms again and he's freaked out. I know there are now two *confirmed* reinfection cases (amidst the many anecdotal but not verified cases), and that each case was different (one, the second infection was asymptomatic where the first was mild symptoms, the other, the infection was worse the second time).

hoping it's not a repeat VID (though he's around the same distance of time away from original infection that the other two cases are). he is a massive smoker who has fucked his lungs up pretty badly, so it tends to make any respiratory illness bad for him, but can't be too cautious.

another friend had trouble breathing (and he's diabetic) and he went to get checked out and both of his COVID tests came back negative. was wondering why they didn't just treat him as a presumptive positive. doctor tried to tell him it was a panic attack.

being someone with a panic disorder, I can definitely say it's POSSIBLE for a continuous, uninterrupted feeling of severe anxiety to make it tough to breathe for a week (this happened to me the week I went to the hospital in 2009 thinking I was having a heart attack), but other people have it come and go in waves, and I wish they'd do more of a workup on him to rule out other things (that was a huge piece of mind when I went to the hospital, but I also know people aren't itching to pay hefty hospital bills rn, least of all him!).

I feel bad because I had to take a FB break this week, and it's felt great, but if I don't read it, I don't know what's going on w/ my friends like this. think I'm just going to read it on occasion but not post. it's done a wonder for my mood this week.

my younger kids had their first full day of school today, annoying thing is that the cantine was packed & you have to take off your mask to eat so...I guess we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good enough...

they've closed the canteen at my son's school and bring the dinners to the classrooms, but this is only possible because it is a private National Autistic Society school blessed with small class numbers and a staff to students ratio that most state schools could only dream of.

i'm going out here and there, but not into big crowds, mostly outdoors, and always safely. my mind would have exploded otherwise.

Same here. If you live alone in a county that enforces atomizing like mine, you can go batty from isolation. When I walk in the mornings -- I'm up to six miles! -- I see no one. Although I haven't eaten outdoors since June, I'm ready to resume because, well, I gotta take a small risk to maintain my equilibrium. We all have our thresholds.

my son’s school also eating in the classroom calz! lots of cleanup funtimes

When I walk in the mornings -- I'm up to six miles! -- I see no one.

Six miles, nice -- I'm at three, but a very quick walk at 30 minutes nonstop, which is probably the best I can manage in terms of distance while still keeping to my general work-at-home schedule. (Running is not an option because there's some sort of numbness that kicks in with too much exercise due to continuing hip/orthopedic weirdness, but my fast walks are others' slow jogs.) Being in SF means there's people around even in the early morning, not many but enough that when it comes to the nearby park I'd rather go then than any other time -- we'll see what happens in the fall/winter, though. It's busy enough outside that you don't feel isolated per se, you're just waiting things out.

Ned, I'm not being creepy (I swear), but I truly want to know which neighborhood you live in so I can imagine you walking in the morning. I miss SF in the morning, it was always a magic time.

a very quick walk at 30 minutes nonstop,

Yep, this is me -- I don't stop -- but I'm the psychopath reading a book.

coincidentally, walking home from the grocery store I decided to count the number of people I passed on the sidewalk/saw while walking around who were wearing vs. not wearing masks.

the total: 48 unmasked, 45 masked. (and we don't even have many restaurants on my path, so this is probably tilted in favor of the masked.)

this is never going to end

(granted I am probably well on the more cautious side -- I'm in a relationship and in order to keep seeing each other, both of us have agreed to limit our in-person interactions with other people to an absolute minimum. if anything I'm the more lax one, he wears N95s everywhere and has groceries delivered)

Teacher friend near Houston had to start her kids back in daycare last week to finish prepping for in-person instruction, family is already down with high fevers but COVID negative thus far.

Ned, I'm not being creepy (I swear), but I truly want to know which neighborhood you live in so I can imagine you walking in the morning. I miss SF in the morning, it was always a magic time.

Precita Park area. It's good for it -- uninterrupted walking and elevation for some cardio; I regularly work up both a good sweat along with my heart rate.

N95s still have to be worn correctly and be the right size. I used to run a fit testing programme so I can spot when they aren’t. I went for a Covid test yesterday And one of the nurses definitely had an n95 mask that was too big for her, sitting too low because of too long earloops and noticeable gaps along the cheekbones. I’ve not seen any research that in terms of protecting others a poorly worn n95 is probably worse than a cloth mask, but I do know that in terms of protecting yourself, a poor face seal on an N95 is no protection at all. It’s why, if you work a job that requires an n95 (or other respiratory protection) you have to be trained and fit tested at least once a year.

my understanding is that certain kinds of N95 masks with front valves are not protective of other people at all, since the valves allow exhalation of particles/virus.

I've never seen an N95 mask and I don't know how many varieties of them there are

Ned, love that area. Good friends used to live on Folsom, right on the park there.

My partner has told many people about getting fitted properly for N95s and no one ever listens to him.

Yes, valves are bad news and provide no protection to others.

I took my son to a playground for the first time in ages. There are signs everywhere that say masks are mandatory. We were the only people there wearing masks. I want capital punishment for all the other parents.

i guess a friend of mine's wife got into a fight with another guy over masks today, and his reply was "I'm 55, I'm white, and I'm a man, I don't have to listen to your shit!"

lol he said that

wait, I got it wrong, according to his FB he said "I'm white, I'm a man, I'm 55. You can't tell me what to do".

which iirc was the title of the latest LA Guns album