What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

Anyone who has lived through the last 20-50 years of American life and isn't cynical has way better drug connections than me.

I really don't understand you milo, want to though

I have friends in NY (not republicans) who expressed resentment to me about her for the role they perceived she had in banishing Amazon

how do they feel about her now that Amazon has hugely increased its office space and employee numbers in NYC without being given giant taxpayer handouts?

xp For my entire life we've stumbled from crime against humanity to crime against humanity externally while inequality explodes internally, life gets harder for most people decade over decade, climate change looms unchecked, the very possibility of a better world gets more and more remote.

can't argue

As a non-American who finds US politics intensely depressing, it's just such a relief to see someone obviously intelligent and expressing principles rather than basing every position on who funds her campaigns. See also: Katie Porter.

If multiple Clinton16/Warren20 people on this thread are pro AOC this is surely a good thing. If she can simultaneously appeal to both liberals and people on the left thats good not bad?

And trying to persuade liberals she 'isn't what they think she is', or downplay any positive thoughts from that quarter seems counter-productive?

I think people know who she is by now, particularly here, and it’s really patronizing and paternalistic to assume we don’t.

100%, especially as everyone sees things through different lenses, none of which are any more true than any other. Someone who is able to appeal across different lenses is someone with good reach!

Definitely a scenario for accuentating the positives

it's almost like the left would rather be permanently aggrieved than win

Well, what's to "win" in a world that's already doomed? This isn't politics, it's apocalyptic millenarianism with a side of ego-stroking. "There's nothing to be done, the system is hopelessly corrupt and the planet is beyond saving...but I'm still purer than/superior to you."

it's almost like the left would rather be permanently aggrieved than win

AOC seems focused on goals to me, I'm not seeing an aggrieved way of thinking present at all!

That was a reference to certain posters in this thread, not AOC.

Apologies, I misread who you meant. After I clicked submit I thought that didn't seem quite right and that you must be referring to others but by then I had already clicked

This isn't politics

are we supposed to be doing "politics" here?

xpost I wasn't talking about AOC! she's the best

wasn't talking about ppl itt but the ppl mentioned who apparently think AOC is a sellout

Well, what's to "win" in a world that's already doomed?

Winning is for losers iirc.

xp sorry ums I conflated your post w unperson's

yeah, AOC is the opposite of all the aggrieved polit. posters here who would rather speculate themselves into submission.

getting a little tired of all this winning!

booming post.

wasn't talking about ppl itt but the ppl mentioned who apparently think AOC is a sellout

While such people surely exist are the numerous enough to be significant? Unless they are important or significant enough to address directly it can lead to misunderstanding about who is meant

Apologies if they were mentioned and I missed it

some unknown number of them have been seen by someone on twitter at some point; therefore speculation about their beliefs and motivation should drive all political discussion on ilx

yeah, AOC is the opposite of all the aggrieved polit. posters here who would rather speculate themselves into submission.

― Yerac, Tuesday, August 25, 2020 8:29 AM (one hour ago)

heavily otm

AOC would have talked herself out of running, had she listened to hardcore left twitter. so who the fuck cares what they think about her?

also, paranormal sci-fi thought: if a hardcore left didn't exist to pre-emptively decide that AOC sucks, a new hardcore left would invent herself in order to do it. the law of humanity is this: everyone has to be criticized heavily from at least one side, preferably from all sides. absolutely everyone. there is no hope. the cold reality of there being no hope and no future will create itself, if it is not being heard

#voteAOC

so who the cares what they think about her?

I've no idea!

hek

AOC is a sellout, P.S. my opinions are not so much reasoned observations but rather projections of my addiction to misery.

If 99% of Democrats are hopeless sellouts and delusional incrementalists who aren't worth engaging with, how do the remaining 1% manage to get anything done? Or is the idea of "getting things done" itself delusional, given that Everything Is Fucked and We're All Doomed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeWduNomDqY

As they are never named specifically and we never find out who they are this may be difficult information to come by

the answer is cryptopolitics, with every political transaction publicly recorded on the blockchain

Twitter mind phantoms: owned

This is worth clicking through and reading. (The lessons on how to read the media are likely obvious to all in this thread - the point is, how many other sitting members of Congress will bother trying to educate the public in this way? Fucking none.)

.@aoc has a very good take on being media savvy: Find reporters you like vs. blanket fandom of an outlet. I think that’s the future of the business, readers will follow individuals, not organizations. pic.twitter.com/ipejHpCBEa

— Steve Beynon (@StevenBeynon) August 25, 2020

If 99% of Democrats are hopeless sellouts and delusional incrementalists who aren't worth engaging with, how do the remaining 1% manage to get anything done? Or is the idea of "getting things done" itself delusional, given that Everything Is Fucked and We're All Doomed?

― jaymc, Tuesday, August 25, 2020 11:18 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

just making sure we’re still dunking on anecdotal twitter leftists mentioned off-handedly about 30 posts ago

I'm not dunking on anecdotal Twitter leftists, I'm directing questions at the leftists in this thread.

Incrementalists would be worth engaging with - like AOC, or Bernie!

The Pelosis, Schumers and Bidens, OTOH, the actual power brokers of the party, don’t represent progressive change in even an incremental way. How do we know? The last 40 years of Democratic history.

Well, I'm glad you like AOC and Bernie. I'm not wild about Pelosi, Schumer, and Biden, either, but hopefully we can elect more progressive Democrats and push the party's balance of power further to the left. And in the short term, that may require working with the power brokers and applying pressure where it's needed.

Like, guillotining Nancy Pelosi isn't an option.

By all means, primary her, though!

push the party's balance of power further to the left. And in the short term, that may require working with the power brokers and applying pressure where it's needed.

That sounds good - but isn't it just what was being talked about before the Twitter doomer circlejerk? ie the idea that AOC is a future President/party leader/etc.?

The leaders and center of the party have shown themselves completely resistant to pressure and change - because it inherently comes at the expense of their power and the power of their backers. There's no reason to believe they're going to be more accommodating of AOC than they have been of the party left at any other time since 99% of us have been alive.

AOC's function in many ways seems to be to assuage people that they're right to keep ridin with Biden/etc. because the party future is so bright - and explains why so many people who abhorred Bernie (who served to remind people of how awful and useless the Democrats have been for multiple generations) are superfans.

the likely greatest national impact of AOC in the 2020s is that she's part of the proof of concept vanguard: yes, an intelligent young non-white woman can break into politics and excel even while under pressure. Which is to say as much as i like AOC, i'm more excited about what she represents and engenders than what she actually is, which is a promising first term progressive congresswoman with a lot of buzz but understandably extremely limited clout to effect change

The leaders and center of the party have shown themselves completely resistant to pressure and change - because it inherently comes at the expense of their power and the power of their backers.

I don't think this is true. I think the party has changed quite a bit in the past 20 years. And although party leaders have often lagged behind those changes, they've eventually adapted to them.

I *am* excited about the future of the party because I feel like people like AOC and Stacey Abrams and Katie Porter understand the tactics required to effect change in the current moment better than some of the party leaders who have been in Congress for decades.

I'm not sure how you look at the platform Hillary Clinton ran on and say with a straight face that there has been no change in the Democratic Party's center

Because I lived through Hillary’s entire political career and saw how she would have governed.

(Also that Hillary Clinton was the nominee.)