Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

Better to pretend it never happened. Who's going to care?
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)

It occurs to me that isn't this something that was argued about for 30-some posts earlier today--whether or not Kamala Harris called Joe Biden a racist in the debate moment nobody cares about?

The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.

But even the people who care here, it's not changing anyone's votes.

If the left flank makes sure they are a key constituency

What does this even mean?

As ever, once you're a guaranteed vote the Democrats have no interest in actually serving your needs or desires. Why would they? The fuck else you gonna do, vote Republican?

Republicans are terrified of their voters, Democrats disdain theirs.

Legalize Marijuana

DNC Platform
vote: 106n, 50y, 3a
% support: 31/67 (-36) 👈

Polling – Pew 11/19
Public: 67/32 (+35)
Dems: 78/20 (+58) ←

Medicare for All

DNC Platform
vote: 36y, 125n, 3a
% support: 22/76 (-54) 👈

Polling – KFF 5/20
Public: 57/40 (+17)
Dems: 78/19 (+59) ←

— austerity is theft (@wideofthepost) July 28, 2020

now THAT is an original post. Don't jerk off on this thread while posting it, though.

Politics consists of increments. The party platform is now officially more leftward than Obama-Biden's in 2008. I don't mind a little dissatisfaction if it keeps us activists het up.

Milo do you think the genie is out of the bottle wrt single payer? I’m pretty certain Biden//Harris is the last ticket in Dems history

― Van Horn Street

one can only hope

Politics consists of increments. The party platform is now officially more leftward than Obama-Biden's in 2008. I don't mind a little dissatisfaction if it keeps us activists het up.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

"het up" is one way of describing it, i suppose

don't worry, i'll "cool down" soon enough

Incrementalism only works when there's actual incremental progress.

God grant me the serenity of someone who believes Joe Biden will have the answer to 14% unemployment on February 1.

But I'm all for threads serving as therapy.

I live in a state where a sheriff of a mid-sized city announced he would force citizens not to mask should they seek the help of his office, and it might be a lowest common denominator scenario for this Sanders/Warren voter to accept a president from whom governors take their cue, but here we are.

don't worry, i'll "cool down" soon enough

did I write "cool down" at some point?

The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:57 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

But even the people who care here, it's not changing anyone's votes.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.

So it's worth arguing about here, because it has meaning to the people arguing about it, but it's not worth them clarifying anything to the world at large, because everyone else is too stupid to care? These fine distinctions escape me.

I sometimes think you've taken over from Outic as The Guy Who Has Everything Figured Out.

ain't no one gonna be cooling down if you catch my meaning

Outic

Homer wept.

If the left flank makes sure they are a key constituency, and since 2016 there seems to be some valuable progress in that regard, they won’t be seen as irrevelant. Obama//Biden in 2008 and 2012 don’t propose a 2 trillions green plan, now he does.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:56 PM

the uniquely sad thing about the climate change issue is that for every year we continue to do jack shit, the cost and scope of realistic policies to address it goes up as the situation is more urgent and the amount of time to make the transition only becomes shorter.

so, it's cool that they (biden) at least agreed to a $2 trillion plan in 2020, but whoever runs in 2028 is going to be proposing a $10 trillion plan (probably higher), all the same

Outic at least appeared in Funkadelic threads

(that was one major point for bernie - he proposed a $16T climate plan. i really appreciated someone actually taking the issue seriously and using realistic numbers)

Yep.

I don't really understand how anyone is arguing with Milo right now. He's very otm right now.

it's worth arguing about here, because it has meaning to the people arguing about it, but it's not worth them clarifying anything to the world at large, because everyone else is too stupid to care? These fine distinctions escape me.

Where did I suggest anyone was too stupid to care? I said they don’t. We also have a thread on accelerationism. How many American voters know of or care about accelerationism? Or basically any of the other topics discussed here?

As for the argument above... I believe I called her attack on Biden ‘political theater’ - which is to say I don’t care about the argument either. Who gives a shit? Obviously she either didn’t believe the attack to start with or doesn’t care enough about it to not work with him.

If the American public starts demanding a rapprochement on the issue, then deal with it. But no one is so why make it an issue?

Whether any politician "means" anything is irrelevant: the point is to win. Harris thought she could win with these points last summer; then she proved she was unskilled enough as a pol to elongate the critique or come up with a platform on her own.

Today was convincing theater, and that's enough for millions of voters.

I don't really understand how anyone is arguing with Milo right now. He's very otm right now.

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 8:32 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

WHAT THE ohh

the table calling milo otm is perfection

But what do map and Left think?

I find myself arguing on the opposite side of where I usually am, which is that political theater and appearances and a thousand other small things matter (at which point I'm usually called out for caring too much about "horse-race" trivialities). So I do understand. It just nagged at me today when she was championing Biden's commitment to civil rights--I can't unforget that memorable flare-up. And I agree with something Mad Puffin said earlier--it would be the easiest thing in the world to preemptively brush away, whether through humour or a mea culpa or whatever.

If they don't, they don't. I hope they have something credible ready when it comes up in a debate.

Or when the media gets bored six weeks from now, and they're looking for something to make an issue of.

it's just the first day of their campaign together! I thought her speech was great

I miss Οὖτις, wish he would come back

(my post was a joke about mistaking Milo to mean Yiannapolous, carry on)

And I agree with something Mad Puffin said earlier--it would be the easiest thing in the world to preemptively brush away, whether through humour or a mea culpa or whatever.

The problem is that if you take it seriously as anything other than Harris trying to claw her way to the front of the pack, you can’t just brush it aside with a joke. Whose mea culpa? His for palling around with racists and supporting them on bussing or her making one for mentioning that he palled around with racists and supported them on bussing?

It's tricky, I realize that. But I'd still like them to address it.

(xpost) I did too, 95% of it. I've always thought she has so much presence (by which I mean facility for political theatre, of course).

And if no one indeed cares, and not a single vote will be changed either way, then presumably a clumsy or less than credible attempt at an explanation will carry no cost.

that moment in the first debate seemed like a point of real connection on a personal level to me. I don't see it as a negative for them

Sure it will. Doing so makes it an issue. It’s all downside, no upside. No one who wasn’t voting for Biden will do so, but you have once again raised the specter of Biden’s history as a segregationist bro when you’re the party that can’t win without African-American voters.

I think people evolve

I don't see it as a negative for them.

I don't either--it could be a plus if addressed properly.

What I would do is have Biden say he learned from that moment, he was wrong, she's a tenacious debater, etc.

Would that just be political theater, just stuff he's saying? Probably. But since that seems to be acceptable, then great.

I'm curious if "voodoo economics" ever came up in the '80 campaign, and if so, how VP candidate Bush addressed it. Wasn't sure how to search that.

it would be good if milo could evolve from saying ‘trying to claw her way to the front of the pack’

What I would do is have Biden say he learned from that moment, he was wrong, she's a tenacious debater, etc.

There is no advantage to running on Biden's history before 2008.

See? Milo otm

she's a tenacious debater, etc.

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/VjYq4vPTkWSLyrRHouqKjX.jpg

Say what?

They wouldn't be! It would be the perfect opportunity to lend credence to the notion that he's changed.

I think people evolve

I'm guessing you just flat-out reject that idea.

Anyway, I've made my point, we'll see what happens.

People evolve. People who feel compelled to tell you they've evolved have not.

The issue and the national discussion would not be her attack (unless you think she shouldn't have made it and needs to apologize), the issue and discussion would be what the attack was about, ie Biden's history.

Have you ever watched US cable news? Have you ever read a US newspaper or political news website?

Yeah, I have - and you get pieces like this
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626

I'm sure that getting renewed coverage in the media would do wonders for African-American turnout in Pittsburgh.

If the argument is that Joe Biden should disclaim and apologize for his entire political career prior to 2008, go for it I guess? I mean, he should.