Oh and I also liked how it hid away some plot explanations like easter eggs - e.g. who was Regina's father? In Adam and Eva's timeline it was Tronte Nielsen but when Tronte is a kid we see the origin/unnamed/weirdo trio say he gave Tronte his name, implying he's Tronte's father (and Tronte is his own great-great-great grandfather) But then Regina wouldn't exist in the original world, being a product of the time fracture - so in the final scene in the original world we a picture of Claudia, Regina, and Bernd Doppler. (Which makes the fairly creepy scene with an adult Bernd telling a young Claudia that if she wants something she should take it even more creepy.)
― neith moon (ledge), Monday, 3 August 2020 07:47 (three years ago) link
In Adam and Eva's timeline it was Tronte Nielsen but when Tronte is a kid we see the origin/unnamed/weirdo trio say he gave Tronte his name, implying he's Tronte's father (and Tronte is his own great-great-great grandfather) But then Regina wouldn't exist in the original world, being a product of the time fracture - so in the final scene in the original world we a picture of Claudia, Regina, and Bernd Doppler. (Which makes the fairly creepy scene with an adult Bernd telling a young Claudia that if she wants something she should take it even more creepy.)
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 11:34 (three years ago) link
That’s what the previous post was saying. Regina was not a product of time travel.
― dan selzer, Monday, 3 August 2020 11:43 (three years ago) link
Regina would be a time travel anomaly if Tronte were her Dad, and the family tree on the floor in Eva's room says he is - but yes it has to be Bernd in all three universes. The theory is that Claudia covered up her parentage and pretended it was Tronte, I'm not sure how much of that is spelled out in the show and how much is fanfic.
― neith moon (ledge), Monday, 3 August 2020 11:49 (three years ago) link
One thing I think the writers didn't really properly explain is, how exactly Tannhaus's invention of the time travel in the original universe create the two splinter universes? The way I understood it is that him turning his time machine on in the bunker created the "time tunnel" in the Winden caves, which in turn lead to all the time loops seen in Jonas's/Adams's universe. And in that universe he gets Charlotte as an adopted daughter, which quenches his obsession of trying to save his son's family, so he doesn't invent a time machine there. But I don't understand how Eva's world was ever created? It's said that it happens in the splinter moment when alternate universe Martha travels to save Jonas from the apocalypse, but if Eva's world didn't already exist before, there would be no alternate Martha to create that splinter moment. So even if the time loop is closed now, in the original iteration something else must've happened to create Eva's world, before the loop of cause and effect became closed.
Similarly, I don't Jonas's and Martha's unnamed kid ("the Origin") can be father of Tronte, even though it was implied he might be. Because again, the first iteration of the time loop in Jonas's universe couldn't happen without the existence of Ulrich and Mikkel, and if Tronte was fathered by the Origin, they wouldn't exist in the first iteration. The only way the loop makes sense to me is if the first iteration goes something like this:Agnes and Tronte come to Winden, but because Sic Mundus doesn't yet exist, their reason for coming there is something else, and Tronte's mysterious father is someone else than the Origin.->Tronte marries Jana and they have Ulrich and Mads, just like in the later loops.->Mads doesn't go missing, so Ulrich's motivation for becoming a cop is something else in this first loop.-> Ulrich marries Katharina, and they have Magnus, Martha, and Mikkel.->Tannhauser turns on his machine and creates the time tunnel in 1986.->Mikkel gets lost in the time tunnel in 2019. The reason for this is something different than in the later loops, but it's not hard to imagine a 11 year old kid wandering into a mysterious cave just because he's interested in it.->Mikkel travels back in 1986, grows up, marries Hannah, fathers Jonas.->The locked loop settles in.
But if this how it went, then Ulrich and Mikkel must exist in the original universe. It's not hard to come up with an explanation why Ulrich isn't the final scene though: he's an adulterer in both splinter universes, so probably he's that in the original universe too, and Katharina has already divorced him. But unlike in the splinter universes, Hannah and Katharina are friends (this could be a butterfly effect of Mikkel not traveling in time), so Hannah has invited her and not him to their little gathering.
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 12:03 (three years ago) link
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 12:13 (three years ago) link
Btw, I found all those revelations of "X is Y's time travelling parent" in season 3 to be kinda gratuitous and pointlessly confusing. The plot twists in season 1 and 2 about who Jonas's father and Charlotte's mother really are were cool and unexpected, and they did serve the purpose of explaining the motivations of various characters. But the same doesn't really apply to season 3; for example, was there any reason why Noah's and Agnes's mother had be Hannah's time traveling kid who's also the young woman Jonas met in 2053? Would the plot have been any different if Bartosz had simply married some regular early 20th century woman and had Noah and Agnes with her? Feels like they just wanted repeat the previous season's twists even though there was no need to do so.
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 12:27 (three years ago) link
One small thing that really bugged me, in the first episode of this season, when Martha and the other kids are in the woods at night, she hears a creepy voice calling her name, and for a second sees a scary woman all covered in some black goo, who then disappears. I kept expecting for the show to explain what the fuck that was about, but it never did. I even rewatched the scene with freeze frame, but because of the black goo it's impossible to tell if the woman is supposed to be a version of Martha or one of the other time-travellers. Seems like a weird detail to leave unexplained in a story that otherwise tied all its threads?
https://i.insider.com/5efcd61af0f41938f67c8d55?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp
So I guess this means the other Martha is having a vision of her alternate self? But what it all means and why she's covered in black liquid (the God Particle?), I have no idea...
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 12:49 (three years ago) link
what it means is that they wanted a scary and mysterious image to pull people in in s1e1 and they chose to mirror it, along with lots of other things, in s3e1 because it would be cool. i am fine with this.
― neith moon (ledge), Monday, 3 August 2020 13:08 (three years ago) link
i thought that adam and eva's world were created fully formed, time loops and all, by tannhaus in 1986, in an inexplicable act of creation ex nihilo. i'm also fine with this.
― neith moon (ledge), Monday, 3 August 2020 13:11 (three years ago) link
If it was Doctor Who I'd be perfectly fine with that explanation, but this was a show that spent 3 seasons meticulously showing and explaining how each event was the result of a preceding event, so I found it odd that this crucial bit of the backstory was only explained in the broadest of strokes.
― Tuomas, Monday, 3 August 2020 15:12 (three years ago) link
it's true doctor who fans will lap up any old shot
― the quar on drugs (Simon H.), Monday, 3 August 2020 15:15 (three years ago) link
Another small detail that was never explained: in one scene in season 3 we see the middle-aged Jonas read the letter that the alternate universe Martha gave to him, which he then burns with a candle. But then immediately after that, there's a scene where Adam is reading the same letter. At first I thought that scene was hinting at there being more than two alternate universes: one where Jonas burned the letter and one where he didn't. But later on we find out that's not possible, time can only split at the moment of the apocalypse, and there's only one universe with the middle-aged Jonas and Adam in it. So what was the point of that scene then?
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 12:58 (three years ago) link
I mean, I guess it's possible Adam went back in time, stole the letter from Jonas, then returned it later to him so he could burn it. But what would be the point that, since Adam already knows what's in the letter?
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 12:59 (three years ago) link
This happens to a variety of objects in the show - the book, the device, the letter/suicide note from Michael - it's the paradox that once you start moving about in time you duplicate the item. I can't remember what happens specifically with Martha's letter, but at some point Michael's letter also gets destroyed but still exists.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 14:07 (three years ago) link
Yeah, I got that, that's why I was wondering whether Adam acquired the letter via time travel... But with all the other objects that were "duplicated" via time travel, it was shown how that duplication came to be, and I don't think anything like that was shown with Martha's letter? And the scene of Jonas burning it was directly juxtaposed with Adam reading it, so clearly the show makers wanted to draw our attention to its paradoxical existence.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 4 August 2020 14:37 (three years ago) link
this show though... only partway through s2 but it's already top 5 best shows ever
― Leighton Buzzword (dog latin), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:55 (three years ago) link
Season 3 was a step too far for me in terms of complexity. I devoted so much attention to fruitlessly trying figure out what was going on that I began to lose sense of the character's motivations and the stakes. I definitely appreciate its ambition, but it was drifting into abstraction.
Conversely, the actual resolution seemed a little straightforward compared to what had gone before.
― chap, Friday, 11 September 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link
Friese and Odar's 1899 hits Netflix today
― groovypanda, Thursday, 17 November 2022 08:08 (one year ago) link
Dark was pretty disastrous by the end but I’m excited for this. The vibe was always good even when the story went off the rails.
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 17 November 2022 09:35 (one year ago) link
I was impressed how sufficiently they were able to wrap it up, in spite of how confusing the final season was.
― braised cod, Thursday, 17 November 2022 09:50 (one year ago) link
I got lost with the multiple parallel Marthas and felt like they never made a convincing case that Jonas could become EVIL (as opposed to just a little whiny). Also IMO it just got too sad! Too many likeable characters snuffed it in deeply depressing ways.
Still great though - having something so immersive and intricate to watch during Trump-era lockdowns was a godsend
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 17 November 2022 10:22 (one year ago) link
It was a billion times better than most of the Things-Like clones that have been on Netflix in recetn years. High hopes for this
― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Thursday, 17 November 2022 10:44 (one year ago) link
Odd how much of a comfort watch it was given its ongoing bleakness. Probably the hyper attractive euro cast didn’t hurt
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 17 November 2022 11:11 (one year ago) link
just watched the trailer, i'm in.
― ledge, Thursday, 17 November 2022 13:58 (one year ago) link
wait ledge, maybe i’m in a Dark loop, but didn’t you watch Dark before?
― Fizzles, Thursday, 17 November 2022 19:42 (one year ago) link
yes, I was replying to the revive re: 1899 and ignoring all the intervening posts!
― ledge, Thursday, 17 November 2022 21:05 (one year ago) link
lol i missed (somehow) the 1899 context and got v confused.
― Fizzles, Friday, 18 November 2022 06:48 (one year ago) link
Just like watching Dark lol
― groovypanda, Friday, 18 November 2022 08:02 (one year ago) link
Thought Dark kept its plates spinning brilliantly until the end of the second series, third series lol
― 49 Percent Jesus (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 18 November 2022 13:21 (one year ago) link
third series more like Dork lol
― 49 Percent Jesus (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 18 November 2022 13:22 (one year ago) link
Strong opening episode. Great music and sound effects (except for white rabbit, find other tunes), lots of (not so) hidden symbols - triangles hexagons and tetrahedra, and beetles - the french wife had triangle earrings and a large emroidered beetle on her collar.
― ledge, Monday, 21 November 2022 08:54 (one year ago) link
Oh and a superb bit where everyone in the dining room drank their tea at the same time.
finished '1899' earlier today.better than Dark ?
i think so.
watched the first half of the 'making of .. ' thing after, they clearly had a much larger budget.
― mark e, Wednesday, 23 November 2022 19:26 (one year ago) link
Just seen episode 5. Not that I necessarily would have wanted it to ramp things up any quicker, but finally! The content I crave!
― ledge, Thursday, 24 November 2022 08:33 (one year ago) link
I work on a database system that has an option to archive things. At the moment it's just a checkbox and a database flag, maybe I'll redesign it to involve an enormous tempestuous gravity defying whirlpool.
― ledge, Monday, 28 November 2022 09:17 (one year ago) link
really struggling with this. only persisting cos of ledge and mark e itt.
the environment is heavily synthetic and claustrophobic, not at all like being on a boat. i get that this is almost certainly deliberate - effectively this is some sort of mental state or synthetic construct. but the effect is unappealing and monotonous. some sort of sense of the outside world, some sort of sense of realism going gradually awry, and unravelling completely - something Dark did well - would imo have been far more effective. more than once i've been watching and thinking 'i shd just go and play obra dinn'. i recommend something more like the Artemis 81 approach.
i do love how incongruous the musical selections are. but for a different, bad, form of incongruity, the two 'comedy' stokers really are the pits.
also far far too much of this face being made by everyone in every episode:
https://minhaseriefavorita.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2-temp-1899.jpg
also: is it required that anton lesser is in *everything* these days? i don't mind particularly. he's always very good. but he's *everywhere*.
― Fizzles, Monday, 28 November 2022 10:52 (one year ago) link
the environment is heavily synthetic and claustrophobic, not at all like being on a boat
i could argue that boats, especially ones designed for long voyages, are exactly those things - they are simulacra of normal living spaces, often dark or cramped, and you can't leave!
effectively this is some sort of mental state or synthetic construct. but the effect is unappealing and monotonous. some sort of sense of the outside world, some sort of sense of realism going gradually awry, and unravelling completely - something Dark did well - would imo have been far more effective.
i'm reserving judgment till i've finished - probably tonight or tomorrow - but i think they try for the gradual unravelling, and that's clearly how the characters are experiencing it, but once the show has tipped its hand even slightly you can just go oh it's a simulation, and though lot may remain mysterious you completely lose any empathy with the characters. (personally i wouldn't recommend the artemis 81 approach for anything!)
i think the music and sound design is fantastic - ben frost again. comedy stokers appalling, yes. i didn't recognised anton lesser from anything else when i saw him in andor, so was amused to find him playing an almost identical character here.
― ledge, Monday, 28 November 2022 11:18 (one year ago) link
lol wikipedia tells me that those are the only two things he's been in recently, so maybe he's just haunting my dreams
― Fizzles, Monday, 28 November 2022 11:25 (one year ago) link
Finished. Unlike Dark it's not going in to my list of best shows of all time. Not enough headfuckery. They tried to amp it at the end with all the oooh whose simulation is it really? but too little too late. Not a patch on classic ST:TNG headfuck episodes like Frame of Mind, or Adult Swim's Final Deployment 4: Queen Battle Walkthrough. And I just didn't care about any of the characters, half of them we scarcely had a clue who they were or what they were escaping from and the main character remained a total mystery right up to the end.
Obviously if there's a season 2 I'll watch it like the sucker I am.
― ledge, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 09:02 (one year ago) link
I was enjoying but fairly indifferent to it as I was watching but the last two episodes made me more on board and excited to see a second season even if that twist ending wasn't particularly original
― groovypanda, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 15:56 (one year ago) link
No second season, axed by Netflix :(
― groovypanda, Friday, 6 January 2023 08:05 (one year ago) link
tough crowd
― ledge, Friday, 6 January 2023 08:40 (one year ago) link
crap - only saw the start of the pilot and seemed intriguing
worth the effort knowing that's all there is?
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 6 January 2023 11:05 (one year ago) link
i think the story is quite self contained and does not require a second season.
― mark e, Friday, 6 January 2023 12:37 (one year ago) link
Perhaps Dark wouldve been better off ending at the start of the first season!
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 6 January 2023 13:11 (one year ago) link
Yeah, it works as a one off season so still worth watching
― groovypanda, Friday, 6 January 2023 19:27 (one year ago) link