who are you a stan of?

whereas cardiacs fandom has always allowed that lots of people just don't like it and that's fine

You sure about that?

did u not notice that i didn't respond to your post yesterday lol

i think the case where it erks me the most is beyonce where the media apparatus also seems similarly unable to approach her critically at this point

Lol that tweet from Pitchfork wasn't even ratio-ed.

"there are even loads of self-deprecating jokes and light-hearted digs at the band. the top-rated review of 'sing to god' on RYM is a 1-star review saying 'this is like visiting 4 ugly dentists at once', a review beloved even by fans of the band"

Sure sure...

Jill Mapes: “I reviewed folklore positively and guess what? I’ve been getting phone calls since 1 am. Stan culture is terrifying.”

do you think social media encourages people in these communities to sort of try and out do eachother, in terms of who is the most committed fan. kinda like something that might have been restricted to a group of friends in school back in the day, but is now unhealthily massive in scale

as I said RIP Cardiacs guy, but you seem to be saying that "stanning" is only a problem if the ones you consider "the other side" do it, because you want to be able to knock not only another artist's music but also their fans, as you imago are among the most obnoxious on this message board at doing, without taking any heat---you're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to do what you're accusing them of doing.

I know I'm unloading on you imago but you've made many threads unreadable over the years with your handwringing about how you don't like some popular artist but the "pitchfork industrial complex" or "mainstream rock critics" can't see the truth. it's just shitty messageboarding.

the mistake we made was to allow talk of "cancel culture" when "internet hate mobs" remained the real issue

Dan Bejar threads, right here on ILX, creep me out

i think imago's passion for cardiacs is v different from hounding writers for giving something a positive review

>

JILLIAN MAPES, COME ON BBY GURL, DONT BE SHY. UN-PRIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT THIS INSTANT pic.twitter.com/e5Mt9R0AmU

— kendoll™ • #1 exile stan (@hissthesnake) July 27, 2020

I agree but the irony of imago showing up on a stan thread could hardly pass without comment.

I Love Stanthropology

https://img.discogs.com/PxNvTmk9DhOpQFoUDru4-DtpYY0=/fit-in/600x592/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-463701-1506095153-5488.jpeg.jpg

stanning for Stan

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/NINTCHDBPICT000001140999.jpg

where does this ludicrous thing about pitchfork being soft on/biased towards r&b come from, heard it before from metal/punk fans too, I’m assuming it’s the obvious

I could see a potential bias in terms of types of artists they typically award BNMs to (metal for instance rarely makes the cut) but that seems to be down to earnest group priorities and not some kind of sinister calculation

just checked and the last two were blood incantation (last november) and deafheaven (summer 2018). so that's pretty rough.

as I said RIP Cardiacs guy, but you seem to be saying that "stanning" is only a problem if the ones you consider "the other side" do it, because you want to be able to knock not only another artist's music but also their fans, as you imago are among the most obnoxious on this message board at doing, without taking any heat---you're not really looking for dialogue, you just want to do what you're accusing them of doing.

I know I'm unloading on you imago but you've made many threads unreadable over the years with your handwringing about how you don't like some popular artist but the "pitchfork industrial complex" or "mainstream rock critics" can't see the truth. it's just shitty messageboarding.

― Joey Corona (Euler), Monday, 27 July 2020 12:15 (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

a) this isn't about knocking an artist's music or criticising their fans, this is about orchestrated mass social media bullying campaigns

b) do i not take any heat? lol

c) to restate: one person mudslinging about the critical consensus surrounding parquet courts or julia holter, no matter how crudely (and give me some credit, i usually do it in the dedicated bitching thread nowadays) is not the same as social media harassment in the service of the stanned artist. let's use cardiacs as a comparison: when have i ever gone on social media or even ilx and attacked someone personally for not giving them a positive enough assessment?

and yeah pitchfork are fucking dreadful about metal (watch me stan metal!) but that's most critics tbf

i think imago's passion for cardiacs is v different from hounding writers for giving something a positive review

― devvvine, Monday, 27 July 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Hmm, fandom takes on these queer shapes. The bigger issue is what pitchfork ought to do to protect their writers from harassment.

their actual metal reviews are fine there's just not enough of them, and other outlets (eg stereogum) have struck a better overall balance imho

stereogum are independent atm right? that must help

stereogum are very noticeably playing to a much broader crowd, it's good

but yeah while there's no love lost between pitchfork and i, this targeted monstering of their writers is absolutely despicable and at its logical extent represents the death of criticism, how can the stan army be dissuaded? is it taytay's responsibility? i kind of think it is. but she doesn't like to get involved in politics you see, bad for the brand

Is this all happening on twitter?

presumably on a lot of platforms but twitter seems the predominant one

are there many historical examples of cultural figureheads telling their own fans to basically calm the fuck down

Altamont?

https://youtu.be/hV8JFj17AtY

bunch of fans trying to curse Pitchfork for a reasonably positive review. fun!

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና በደንብ pic.twitter.com/3cPy3K1sZz

— s h o e b¹³ (@hauntedghostss) July 27, 2020

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና በደንብ ይተኛሉ pic.twitter.com/gOvU8bev3g

— bella⁷ 𝒇𝒐𝒍𝒌𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒆 (@biggrreputation) July 27, 2020

ከጨለማው ንግሥት በኋላ ፣ ቴይለር ስዊፍት በኋላ የሚመጣ ማንኛውም ሰው ብቻውን ይሞታል እና ለዘላለም ይቃጠላል። በጨለማ ፍርሃቶችዎ እና በአጋንንትዎ ይሞላሉ ፡፡ በጭራሽ ደስተኛ አትሆኑም እና እንደገና pic.twitter.com/SIQi9mbyeu

— folk folk (@encaswift) July 27, 2020

for once I suspect russian interference

Publications's/sites's perceived genre bias is only ever a magic combo of failure to understand audiences + being a perma-butthurt fan of some genre

don't pitchfork and stereogum serve, like, exactly the same audience

Surely Ethiopian there.

the campy occult shit is a bit creepy but the direct in-English harassment (of which there is also a lot) obviously much worse

don't pitchfork and stereogum serve, like, exactly the same audience

prob true about pfork not trying v hard with metal, but at least there are plenty of spaces covering metal exclusively, r&b is always getting accused of taking over generalist music coverage when it’s covered at all, even barely

I thought some of those taylor thinkpieces of the past decade painting her as a borderline fascist weaponising wounded white femininity etc were a little harsh at the time but they prob had a point considering how her online fanbase conducts itself

goes almost without saying but can only assume quarantine is making this several orders worse

It's as easy as coming out and saying "cut this shit out you absolute fucking ghouls". But there's no real incentive for artists to speak out against it, because a) they risk having the rabid, legitimately dangerous pack turn on them and b) their record labels must absolutely love this shit because it terrifies music writers into obedience to whatever narrative, image or product they want to push.

There's a bit in the Taylor documentary where her Dad and a bunch of other old white dudes worry that her endorsing a fucking Democrat would put her life in danger or something. She'd honestly have more to worry about by telling off her fans for their absolutely vile behaviour.

Imago: Have you seen any genuinely deranged Cardiacs fans? We seem deranged to outsiders, true, but so far I've come across only one. (I doubt you know her. She's not British.)

imo when your fans are sending death threats it behooves you to speak up. she has a security detail, critics don't

Music and violence have never gone together.

trying v hard to think of artists i like with a substantial coterie of genuinely deranged fans on social media

mitski? idk tho, most of the social media buzz around her lately has been calling her a cop coz her dad was in the cia. probably led by taylor stans. whose parents...well. i mean.

CRJ's stans must be p grounded, can someone confirm/deny

yall are tasteless asf pic.twitter.com/SPAknMNI8b

— Beny / 𝒇𝒐𝒍𝒌𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒆 like limit (@Benyoutsold) July 27, 2020

alternate headline: washed-up former tastemaker too scared to make any bold assertions about female pop artist doubles down on oddly specific score range to appease the lowest common denominator pic.twitter.com/7M3xXzA6vR

— eugene (@eug1998) July 27, 2020

WTF @pitchfork #pitchforkisoverparty pic.twitter.com/37RRtKGkeN

— Harshit IS CRYINGGGGG.(atleast he is trying) (@taylanastan) July 27, 2020

^^ these are my fave tweets tbf (well apart from witch house taytay obv), because they do touch on the ridiculous grading up to a decimal.

CRJ's stans must be p grounded, can someone confirm/deny

I don't think she even has stans in the sense being discussed itt

The K-pop industrial complex and the various businesses that feed off of it has put a lot on money into creating and weaponizing deranged fans. (By various businesses, I'm thinking in particular of the taxis that cater to fans who want to follow their idols around.)

K-pop IC did a lot to troll Trump/be pro BLM. Don't think it's the same tbh

oh i thought of a good example of an artist i once liked with a noticeable and weirdly obsessive and unhinged fanbase: marina diamandis. and not uncoincidentally (?) her music has fallen through the floor recently. come at me marina stan army

As well as a lot of horrendously destructive behavior.

i do find it extremely hard to engage with k-pop given how...militaristic it is, and i'm sure i'm not alone