rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

we're still a species! See?

Gonna go have a repugnant conclusion all over the back porch

The usefulness of pointing to history IMO comes from looking for divergences. What Trump's doing looks sort of unprecedented but not really - American authorities have killed and jailed and done horrible things to citizens for the entirety of our history. Now it's more out in the open but that makes more people aware or opposed - telling a white American in 1971 about COINTELPRO or assassinating Fred Hampton or etc. and they'd either look at you like we look at QAnon people or in much larger numbers than Blue Live Matters gets, defend it.

That tells me we're not on the precipice of falling into a situation where Trump can stay in office illegally, America's mostly just trucking on as it always has.

(Which shouldn't ease anyone's anxiety or depression because America's just trucking on it as always has.)

Doesn't this risk underselling the importance of something being "more out in the open"? Impunity, egregiousness, shamelessness—surely these things don't *only* serve to heighten awareness and inspire resistance. They also serve to vindicate certain bad behaviors and inspire it in others.

That tells me we're not on the precipice of falling into a situation where Trump can stay in office illegally, America's mostly just trucking on as it always has.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)

see, this is the sort of thing that makes me extremely, extremely uneasy. yes, america has a history of deep, systemic injustice. i believe it's important to acknowledge that history. if you want to understand american history, i think it's important to understand the Corrupt Bargain and the Slave Power Conspiracy and Rutherfraud B. Hayes.

i think it's also important to not use these historical facts to exculpate, to remove the urgency, to remove the immediacy, from the atrocities, past and present, of the trump administration. yes, the trump administration is, in some sense, a culmination of 250 years of racist government. it is however, _necessary_, in order to do anything about it, to recognize the deep aberration it also presents.

this is different from america's past atrocities, this is different from all of the people america and its racism and its anti-queer prejudice has killed in the past. you know, one day, hopefully not for a while yet, i'll be dead, and anybody who cares can look back at my posts and shrug and talk about how fucked up american capitalism has always been, but i'm not yet, the people out there protesting on the streets of portland are not yet. you want to turn a blind eye, you want to tell yourself there's nothing you can do, you want to tell yourself you're powerless and helpless.... well, as long as i have a voice to speak with i will use it to disagree.

you want to turn a blind eye, you want to tell yourself there's nothing you can do, you want to tell yourself you're powerless and helpless.... well, as long as i have a voice to speak with i will use it to disagree.

But recognizing that America has always been an exploitative capitalist hellscape, and politically much farther to the right than most Americans will ever admit, is not at all the same thing as shrugging one's shoulders and admitting defeat. Sure, protest if you feel you must. Run for local office if that seems like a better route to societal change. Form/join a mutual aid society. Do whatever you think is necessary to create the world you want to live in. But be clear-eyed about the world you're currently in, and that means both recognizing the true depth of the darkness and not getting apocalyptic when it's not actually warranted.

N.B. I say this as someone whose long term plan remains not to improve America, but rather to simply get the hell out of America as soon as possible. So maybe I'm the worst traitor-to-the-cause of all.

when are we gonna make this interesting and start throwing some money down?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winner

hang in there Bernie!

I spend most of my time hoping that RGB doesn't die before February 2021.

Doomsday is if she dies on Halloween and Trump loses.

Not sure the US can handle the two months following that scenario.

"N.B. I say this as someone whose long term plan remains not to improve America, but rather to simply get the hell out of America as soon as possible. So maybe I'm the worst traitor-to-the-cause of all.

― but also fuck you (unperson)"

i guess that depends on what "the cause" is. personally i'd prefer to see you safe, alive, and healthy, whatever that means.

"and that means both recognizing the true depth of the darkness and not getting apocalyptic when it's not actually warranted."

look, i'm sure you don't mean it like that, but when you say that it comes across to me like you're telling me how i should feel.

i got no idea how truly deep the darkness is. i'm surrounded by it, and i haven't fuckin' hit bottom yet. telling me "well it's not _really_ any darker than it's ever been" doesn't particularly help.

one of the reasons history does not help me, specifically, is because when i look at history to see how i would have fared under any other time, it is no better and is honestly, probably worse.

what am i going to say to that? i should cheer up, because for trans people, things are literally better than they have ever been?

i really don't want to argue with anybody about how deep the darkness is or isn't. because this isn't just _my_ darkness, this isn't just _my_ problem. i have problems, and i'm working on them, i'm getting help, and if i want more help with _my_ problems i will ask. this is _our_ problem, _our_ darkness, and i want as many of us as possible to make it out alive.

get the hell out of America as soon as possible

Whither, pray tell?

Ask Trump if he'll step down if he loses? Even if he says he will, he's not held to that.

just ftr, he was asked this on camera four days ago and declined to even suggest that he would follow the law

I think what damage he can do in the two months between losing and leaving office is a bigger concern, though.

(xpost)

it would help if mass media no longer felt compelled to report on his every thought and action post-if/when he loses

which, honestly, I could actually see happening given how many will be eager to try and throw this era down the oubliette

Genuinely stoked for the October Surprise

I predict they will cancel Halloween. And I mean that literally.

Genuinely stoked for the October Surprise

― Boring, Maryland

will it involve a sealed train

I would be surprised if it involved Seals and Croft.

just ftr, he was asked this on camera four days ago and declined to even suggest that he would follow the law

I think what damage he can do in the two months between losing and leaving office is a bigger concern, though.

(xpost)

― Steppin' RZA (sic), Friday, July 24, 2020 4:57 PM bookmarkflaglink

and yet like, three weeks before that, he said "if I don't win, I don't win"....he's not ever consistent when he's asked questions of any kind.

I do agree that him deciding to go on a lame duck sabotage run in his last two months is a legit concern, rightfully so.

I would be surprised if it involved Seals and Croft.

― Josh in Chicago

the duo who tanked their career by releasing an anti-abortion song? i wouldn't.

not asking anyone else to feel the same but tbh I have been quite heartened by the relative normalization of previously (left) fringe ideas and the sheer infectious energy of resistance which seemingly (unlike with, say, with Iraq or WTO) has spread far beyond traditional activist circles, though many of its current expressions may be confused or even counterproductive at times. there's a million miles to go but more people than ever are headed in directions I'd even call positive. I wish that was happening in good, sunny times but I'll take what I can get.

admittedly I have been getting a lot more sun and in person conversation than many of you presumably are so perhaps my optimism is suspect

I wish that was happening in good, sunny times but I'll take what I can get.

― the quar on drugs (Simon H.)

oh god, now i'm wondering if this doesn't mean that "heightening the contradictions" is an actual effective fucking strategy

i am a chronic depressive who has aced the GAD-7 for several months running so my pessimism is perhaps suspect

The test of this will be what happens with that energy if Biden wins and some sense of normalcy returns.

that is very much something I wonder about

normality will not return when there's this much to clean up, ladies and gents

it will take a while

I'll give one more reason for *some* optimism

recently a set of canadian police chiefs got together, quite out of the blue, to recommend that Canada decriminalize personal drug use across the board - all drugs. probably not a coincidence that this happened amidst the broader national conversation on what, if anything, should be done with police budgets, especially in major cities where they often dwarf money allotted for, say, public housing or transit. if I'm right, this proposal is a (smart!) way to head off rising anti-police sentiment by voluntarily ceding *some* territory, all thanks to BLM (and other) activists throughout the country raising hell. and while there have been many incidents of racist police violence across the country, these events are all unthinkable to me without Americans of conscience first mobilizing in great numbers at home. it doesn't unmake the atrocities but the efforts have mattered and will continue to matter, in ways you may not even consider, is all I'm saying. doompost if you must but I hope you'll organize, too!

cleanup is far in the future. the car crash is still happening. there's just a chance that the back-seat passenger will get flung into the driver's seat and have a turn pumping on the brakes.

i can't see any scenario where a biden win doesn't lead to (at a minimum) scattered acts of violence.

disagree with anyone saying that previous events are equivalent, that there is nothing new, 1968 was as bad, that history repeats itself

this is an unprecedented degree of open corruption, flagrant abuse of power, deliberate degrading of our institutions, disregard for science and education, and contempt for the citizens of this country

preeeeeetty sure Nixon has Trump beat in the "abuse of power" arena

no

preeeeeetty sure Nixon has Trump beat in the "abuse of power" arena

this is an unprecedented degree of open corruption, flagrant abuse of power, deliberate degrading of our institutions, disregard for science and education, and contempt for the citizens of this country

there's a reason "open" and "flagrant" were required to make this make sense. none of the other stuff is new at all

xxpost uhh, yeah, by a long shot. Trump has done some Nixonian things, like fire people who aren't loyalists, or interfere with investigations, but nothing quite on the level of Watergate, which required a Sisyphean level of obfuscation including cover-ups of cover-ups of cover-ups, willful destruction of evidence, ordering the firing of his investigator vis a vis the Saturday Night Massacre, leading to the resignation of several Attorney Generals. He attempted to sabotage LBJ's peace talks in Vietnam....

Nixon would get drunk and try to order nuclear strikes to where Schlesinger/Kissinger essentially told everybody that any military action (nuclear or otherwise) had to go through them first, fearing a vindictive, drunk Nixon in his waning hours was going to outright lose it. He had an "Enemies list" and he and his counsel used it to harass his enemies by demanding the IRS investigate them (which fortunately the IRS seemed to refuse), and using federal mechanisms to screw them out of contracts/grants, etc. He had reporters' phones tapped. his own aides even briefly plotted a murder of a journalist they didn't like though never went through with it.

Fact is, Nixon wouldn't have faced a threat of impeachment in 2020's America, at all....Trump would have back in the Nixon era.

nobody's saying these aren't bad times and they're the scariest of my lifetime atm but "unprecedented", idk about that. disregard for science and education has always been a problem in this country, hence the Scopes monkey trials - it's more visible now because everyone of these anti-science kook assholes has a megaphone via social media, and propaganda travels faster.

after all these years I still just don't understand why they had to keep hitting that monkey with that telescope

it's sad, he was destined to be a Rhode's scholar

xxp the scariest of your lifetime but not unprecedented?

'open' and 'flagrant' are enough to mark this administration as separate from all previous ones

just one example, the deliberate appointment of cabinet members actually opposed to the goals and ideals of the departments they represent?

the scariest of your lifetime but not unprecedented?

How old do you think I am, dude?

every thing I just mentioned upthread happened before I was born

just one example, the deliberate appointment of cabinet members actually opposed to the goals and ideals of the departments they represent?

^ the almost systemic appointment of etc

xpost the fact that there's precedent is pretty much WHY the Trump era is so infuriating, is because we have seen much of this before, know exactly what he's doing or trying to do, and having half of the country willfully believe he's not doing what he's quite obviously doing.

my point is it is unprecedented

...ok

We’ve done this a ton and it’s never so simple...there’s a long list of shit Trump has done that Nixon never did, too.

just one example, the deliberate appointment of cabinet members actually opposed to the goals and ideals of the departments they represent?

Hardly unprecedented, unless you've forgotten Ronald Reagan's Cabinet.

We’ve done this a ton and it’s never so simple...there’s a long list of shit Trump has done that Nixon never did, too.

― singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII), Friday, July 24, 2020 9:27 PM bookmarkflaglink

like wipe back to front