rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

don't forget about those territories and commonwealths

joe biden 2020: it's like the 1972 dolphins, and yes that's a reference a 77 year old man would understand.com

I hear this kind of thing a lot a lot and am genuinely puzzled by it. Is the idea that every period of tumult poses the same existential threat?

― singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII)

like i wanna be fair to everybody pushing back against the stuff i'm saying, this is fucking horrifying stuff, this violates pretty much everything i've been taught about right and wrong and i gotta imagine other people are not immune to these concerns. and one of the ways i deal with stuff i'm not willing to accept is, you know, by pushing back, in any way i can, and if that means pushing back against the credibility of the person saying it because i can't meaningfully engage with what they're saying, i'll do it. i don't think it's right or fair for me to do that, i try not to, but you know, we are not any of us in exactly a great position right now.

it takes time to come to terms with, and, you know, it's a rapidly evolving situation, we don't have a lot of time right now to process all this shit, and so i'm pushing pretty hard. but i am, unreliable or no, i'm just a goddamn messenger, and pushing me away or rationalizing it or trying to contextualize it, you know, it's trying to turn the intolerable into the tolerable, because if you can't change the situation, you change yourself to adapt, right? you change yourself because you need to survive.

i don't know how to make this tolerable. this is bad and it is worse every day. my only hope is that the situation will change, and saying "wait till november" is not something i can, at this point, take any comfort in.

― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, July 24, 2020 1:18 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Kate can you expand on this w/r/t the kind of pushback that essentially says "Oh, we've been through this strife before, look at history, you're overreacting"? I follow your post but not as it relates to my question.

Maybe Trump will die and refuse to accept the results

― Lady Antibody (Neanderthal)

don't even joke about that, we're still dealing with the fallout from that one time two thousand years ago

a complete blowout is important for several reasons, from political things like winning downballot races and flipping statehouses, to looming fascism things like overcoming blatant voter suppression and making sure the margin of defeat isn't small enough for Trump's inevitable claims of election fraud to be taken seriously by enough of his idiotic followers to make a real difference. i also succumb to the mystic-cosmological instinct to triumph over the pure source of evil, like it's important to me for this magnificent piece of shit to be pushed hard into the mud

xp

Kate can you expand on this w/r/t the kind of pushback that essentially says "Oh, we've been through this strife before, look at history, you're overreacting"? I follow your post but not as it relates to my question.

― singular wolf erotica producer (Hadrian VIII)

sure, i wasn't specifically addressing your question, it was more of a tangent

i am very interested in history myself, and that interest is only amateur but i've encountered enough professional historians to have some vague inkling of how history looks from that perspective

one of the big historian jokes is the story of a historian who, after fifty years studying it, concludes that history is "just one damn thing after another" - which is funny because we want to read meaning, purpose, _prophecy_ in history, and it's not there.

i mean, the argument of "this never happened before" has a fairly obvious flaw, doesn't it? lots of things happen that have never happened before. the present is not dictated by the past. ontogeny does not recapitulate phylogeny.

i can't count the number of historical facts i've taught myself in order to convince myself that the things that have happened weren't, in fact, going to happen, starting with the election of donald trump to the presidency of the united states.

we are in unprecedented times. there is no consolation for me in the past.

But you would think if someone firmly believed that we were about to have our democracy dissolved, even if they didn't have outright solutions, they'd be brainstorming and loudly barking about things we needed to start doing.

― Lady Antibody (Neanderthal)

you know there are laws against saying those sorts of things, right? and that they are enforced?

xp yeah, the whole "we've been through this kind of thing before" line never consoles me much. it's like yeah, we have - and those times fucking sucked, and the people that died or had their lives ruined aren't here to post about how bad it sucked and how we should look out for fascists

look everybody, we've been through pandemics before, it's fine

"we" as in "people i read about"

yes everyone agrees many things are bad

*coughs up a lung*
*last dying words: "you shudda seen...1918...this is nothing...aghhghh"*

Idk my paternal grandparents fled Hitler’s Germany, my grandfather in particular had to make his way to America via Italian prisons, Vatican interventions, and sea voyages, then went back in the US Army, i do draw some strength from knowing that if he lived through that that I can, minimally, get through another year or so of staying inside and not being able to visit my parents.

Fascist gestapo in my city tho I am not sure what to do about

xps yes got it. I think history is instructive when it comes to human behavior, to instincts. But yeah whether or not comparable events have or have not happened in the past seems largely irrelevant for all kinds of obvious reasons (shifting mores, technological changes, etc.) to how the present plays out.

*extremely utilitarian voice* yes the covid-19 pandemic is unprecedented in recent times but there’s also more people now alive so even if 2% of the global population dies of it there will still be more total lives worth living on the planet than there were during the Black Death!

the people that died or had their lives ruined aren't here to post about how bad it sucked and how we should look out for fascists

this is the part that always gets me—yeah, worked out for *who* exactly?

The human population in general of course

we're still a species! See?

Gonna go have a repugnant conclusion all over the back porch

The usefulness of pointing to history IMO comes from looking for divergences. What Trump's doing looks sort of unprecedented but not really - American authorities have killed and jailed and done horrible things to citizens for the entirety of our history. Now it's more out in the open but that makes more people aware or opposed - telling a white American in 1971 about COINTELPRO or assassinating Fred Hampton or etc. and they'd either look at you like we look at QAnon people or in much larger numbers than Blue Live Matters gets, defend it.

That tells me we're not on the precipice of falling into a situation where Trump can stay in office illegally, America's mostly just trucking on as it always has.

(Which shouldn't ease anyone's anxiety or depression because America's just trucking on it as always has.)

Doesn't this risk underselling the importance of something being "more out in the open"? Impunity, egregiousness, shamelessness—surely these things don't *only* serve to heighten awareness and inspire resistance. They also serve to vindicate certain bad behaviors and inspire it in others.

That tells me we're not on the precipice of falling into a situation where Trump can stay in office illegally, America's mostly just trucking on as it always has.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)

see, this is the sort of thing that makes me extremely, extremely uneasy. yes, america has a history of deep, systemic injustice. i believe it's important to acknowledge that history. if you want to understand american history, i think it's important to understand the Corrupt Bargain and the Slave Power Conspiracy and Rutherfraud B. Hayes.

i think it's also important to not use these historical facts to exculpate, to remove the urgency, to remove the immediacy, from the atrocities, past and present, of the trump administration. yes, the trump administration is, in some sense, a culmination of 250 years of racist government. it is however, _necessary_, in order to do anything about it, to recognize the deep aberration it also presents.

this is different from america's past atrocities, this is different from all of the people america and its racism and its anti-queer prejudice has killed in the past. you know, one day, hopefully not for a while yet, i'll be dead, and anybody who cares can look back at my posts and shrug and talk about how fucked up american capitalism has always been, but i'm not yet, the people out there protesting on the streets of portland are not yet. you want to turn a blind eye, you want to tell yourself there's nothing you can do, you want to tell yourself you're powerless and helpless.... well, as long as i have a voice to speak with i will use it to disagree.

you want to turn a blind eye, you want to tell yourself there's nothing you can do, you want to tell yourself you're powerless and helpless.... well, as long as i have a voice to speak with i will use it to disagree.

But recognizing that America has always been an exploitative capitalist hellscape, and politically much farther to the right than most Americans will ever admit, is not at all the same thing as shrugging one's shoulders and admitting defeat. Sure, protest if you feel you must. Run for local office if that seems like a better route to societal change. Form/join a mutual aid society. Do whatever you think is necessary to create the world you want to live in. But be clear-eyed about the world you're currently in, and that means both recognizing the true depth of the darkness and not getting apocalyptic when it's not actually warranted.

N.B. I say this as someone whose long term plan remains not to improve America, but rather to simply get the hell out of America as soon as possible. So maybe I'm the worst traitor-to-the-cause of all.

when are we gonna make this interesting and start throwing some money down?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/winner

hang in there Bernie!

I spend most of my time hoping that RGB doesn't die before February 2021.

Doomsday is if she dies on Halloween and Trump loses.

Not sure the US can handle the two months following that scenario.

"N.B. I say this as someone whose long term plan remains not to improve America, but rather to simply get the hell out of America as soon as possible. So maybe I'm the worst traitor-to-the-cause of all.

― but also fuck you (unperson)"

i guess that depends on what "the cause" is. personally i'd prefer to see you safe, alive, and healthy, whatever that means.

"and that means both recognizing the true depth of the darkness and not getting apocalyptic when it's not actually warranted."

look, i'm sure you don't mean it like that, but when you say that it comes across to me like you're telling me how i should feel.

i got no idea how truly deep the darkness is. i'm surrounded by it, and i haven't fuckin' hit bottom yet. telling me "well it's not _really_ any darker than it's ever been" doesn't particularly help.

one of the reasons history does not help me, specifically, is because when i look at history to see how i would have fared under any other time, it is no better and is honestly, probably worse.

what am i going to say to that? i should cheer up, because for trans people, things are literally better than they have ever been?

i really don't want to argue with anybody about how deep the darkness is or isn't. because this isn't just _my_ darkness, this isn't just _my_ problem. i have problems, and i'm working on them, i'm getting help, and if i want more help with _my_ problems i will ask. this is _our_ problem, _our_ darkness, and i want as many of us as possible to make it out alive.

get the hell out of America as soon as possible

Whither, pray tell?

Ask Trump if he'll step down if he loses? Even if he says he will, he's not held to that.

just ftr, he was asked this on camera four days ago and declined to even suggest that he would follow the law

I think what damage he can do in the two months between losing and leaving office is a bigger concern, though.

(xpost)

it would help if mass media no longer felt compelled to report on his every thought and action post-if/when he loses

which, honestly, I could actually see happening given how many will be eager to try and throw this era down the oubliette

Genuinely stoked for the October Surprise

I predict they will cancel Halloween. And I mean that literally.

Genuinely stoked for the October Surprise

― Boring, Maryland

will it involve a sealed train

I would be surprised if it involved Seals and Croft.

just ftr, he was asked this on camera four days ago and declined to even suggest that he would follow the law

I think what damage he can do in the two months between losing and leaving office is a bigger concern, though.

(xpost)

― Steppin' RZA (sic), Friday, July 24, 2020 4:57 PM bookmarkflaglink

and yet like, three weeks before that, he said "if I don't win, I don't win"....he's not ever consistent when he's asked questions of any kind.

I do agree that him deciding to go on a lame duck sabotage run in his last two months is a legit concern, rightfully so.

I would be surprised if it involved Seals and Croft.

― Josh in Chicago

the duo who tanked their career by releasing an anti-abortion song? i wouldn't.

not asking anyone else to feel the same but tbh I have been quite heartened by the relative normalization of previously (left) fringe ideas and the sheer infectious energy of resistance which seemingly (unlike with, say, with Iraq or WTO) has spread far beyond traditional activist circles, though many of its current expressions may be confused or even counterproductive at times. there's a million miles to go but more people than ever are headed in directions I'd even call positive. I wish that was happening in good, sunny times but I'll take what I can get.

admittedly I have been getting a lot more sun and in person conversation than many of you presumably are so perhaps my optimism is suspect

I wish that was happening in good, sunny times but I'll take what I can get.

― the quar on drugs (Simon H.)

oh god, now i'm wondering if this doesn't mean that "heightening the contradictions" is an actual effective fucking strategy

i am a chronic depressive who has aced the GAD-7 for several months running so my pessimism is perhaps suspect

The test of this will be what happens with that energy if Biden wins and some sense of normalcy returns.

that is very much something I wonder about

normality will not return when there's this much to clean up, ladies and gents

it will take a while

I'll give one more reason for *some* optimism

recently a set of canadian police chiefs got together, quite out of the blue, to recommend that Canada decriminalize personal drug use across the board - all drugs. probably not a coincidence that this happened amidst the broader national conversation on what, if anything, should be done with police budgets, especially in major cities where they often dwarf money allotted for, say, public housing or transit. if I'm right, this proposal is a (smart!) way to head off rising anti-police sentiment by voluntarily ceding *some* territory, all thanks to BLM (and other) activists throughout the country raising hell. and while there have been many incidents of racist police violence across the country, these events are all unthinkable to me without Americans of conscience first mobilizing in great numbers at home. it doesn't unmake the atrocities but the efforts have mattered and will continue to matter, in ways you may not even consider, is all I'm saying. doompost if you must but I hope you'll organize, too!

cleanup is far in the future. the car crash is still happening. there's just a chance that the back-seat passenger will get flung into the driver's seat and have a turn pumping on the brakes.

i can't see any scenario where a biden win doesn't lead to (at a minimum) scattered acts of violence.

disagree with anyone saying that previous events are equivalent, that there is nothing new, 1968 was as bad, that history repeats itself

this is an unprecedented degree of open corruption, flagrant abuse of power, deliberate degrading of our institutions, disregard for science and education, and contempt for the citizens of this country

preeeeeetty sure Nixon has Trump beat in the "abuse of power" arena