rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

ending american democracy and installing oneself as a dictator != sowing chaos

end != means

I think we should be alarmed about what's happening today

and that alarm should inform preparedness for what "could" happen tomorrow

there will always be people who say down to the very last moment that everything is fine

yep

I've mentioned this before, and (duh) it's an extreme example, but I've been reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," and while there are some striking similarities, there are also many striking differences. At the beginning of the book the author says that for all the bad things he says and will say and everyone else will say about Hitler, he was no a coward, and indeed it's that monomaniacal conviction maintained over many years that finally gets him to his goal. Trump, on the other hand, is absolutely a coward and lacking pretty much any convictions beyond self preservation. It's hard to foment political and cultural revolution without convictions. Chaos for chaos sake, on the other hand, sure. That's what we're seeing now and have been getting for years.

we should always be on guard against our natural biases - on ilx i think the bias is towards psychotic fearmongering and not complacency but u guys do u if u feel empowered by this hysteria don't let me stop you

Yeah god forbid anyone ever listen to people who can keep their wits about them under fucked up circumstances

there will always be people who say down to the very last moment that everything is fine

there will always be people who dream up doomsday scenarios to justify their anxieties + depressions. those people may include you.

there will always be people who say down to the very last moment that everything is fine

hyperventilation or complicity: your two options, people!

simon h otm

that's true! i was going to add that onto my post but it seemed self-evident. but then the "some will always say everything's fine" started seeming self-evident, i started feeling bad, and i just hit submit

xp

wait, wtf is going on? i should have read more of the thread before adding anything, sorry

i wasn't trying to slam anyone in here

Me neither fwiw

ICYMI Pelosi and Schumer are going to be executed for crimes against humanity, I take no pleasure in reporting this etc etc

"He is clearly a conservative Republican," Durbin said. "But he doesn't fit, obviously, in the Trump camp on most issues, (although) there is some he does."

On Wednesday, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, called Barr "obviously very smart," "bright" and "capable," asserting that he "clearly understands" the importance of "protecting" the Department of Justice and the Mueller probe from political interference.

"No one can say he isn't qualified," she said. "He was attorney general before."

On CNN, Sen. Chris Coons, a Delaware Democrat, said he was "broadly encouraged" by Barr's "tone," "forcefulness" and "determination to be independent of the President and to protect the Department of Justice and Mueller's investigation." Even Booker cheered some of Barr's responses, including his stance to not prioritize the enforcement of federal marijuana law in states where pot is legal.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/bill-barr-democratic-support/index.html

I mean I know this stuff is anecdotal and can be cherry picked...I'm just saying there's been a TON of wishful thinking at every inflection point. If putting an end to that wishful thinking requires a posture some people consider "alarmist" I'm honestly ok w/ that.

what are the things you're going to do personally to prepare for this eventuality and if there's nothing but spread alarmist online why is it useful to speculate about unlikely things? just to upset people? if it served a purpose i could understand it but steeling yrself for the impossible isn't a purpose.

yes, this is an alarm, i am raising the alarm. ding fucking ding, this is it, federal forces are out in our streets, tear-gassing our citizens, kidnapping people off the street into unmarked vehicles. go ahead and contribute to a "bail fund" if you want but the official word i hear is that the people they are kidnapping off the streets are not being arrested. go ahead and file all the lawsuits you want, every night the president's troops are still here, tear-gassing people, shooting people in the face, and they are not leaving. last night was a slow night. tonight is the weekend and it will not be as calm as it used to be.

maybe i am crying wolf or maybe there is a fucking wolf at the fucking door.

btw mordy that's a really cold way to look at things, the way you described that, "people who dream up doomsday scenarios to justify their anxieties + depression". i mean, i could also look at someone who always says the world is fine and attach a couple of my own favorite mental health issues to it, but i wouldn't, for what i previously thought were obvious reasons. not FP-worthy or anything like that, but just realize every time you say something like that there are dozens of people with the conditions you're talking about reading it, wondering why that got thrown in there

btw mordy that's a really cold way to look at things

― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone)

thanks karl. i am not going to say the word that i thought of upon reading mordy's post.

Mordy I think you've landed on something that is ultimately at the core of a lot of these ilx arguments, e.g. the whole "don't be pessimistic" thing that some are very sensitive to

broadly speaking, no, I'm not concerned about "upsetting" people. Aren't we already upset? I think the speculation is valuable in raising awareness, for the same reason talking to family and friends about any issues we think are important is valuable. To remind each other to be vigilant.

I don't think it's inflammatory, if that's what you mean.

I also don't think Trump is going to refuse to step down. But I'm not going allow myself tp be one of the people who can claim to be "shocked" if he doesn't.

not FP-worthy

disagree

i suffer from depression + anxiety and the reason i threw them in there is bc i know that they can distort the way things appear, and bc i think ilx political discourse is particularly bad and probably they share some responsibility for its state of affairs.

personally i think the institutions of ilx are strong, never been stronger

kind getting really annoyed at everyone always talking about how they're growing weaker, like it's inevitable or something

i'm glad we have this chamber for scared ppl to reinforce their neuroses it's v healthy i'm glad this is my community i don't regret making it my home at all i don't wonder every day why i still post here at all or respond to its psychotic delusions always be vigilant the enemy is at the gates your fear is justified if anyone tells you otherwise they are probably the enemy trying to lull you into complacency rage rage fight fight

that's the stuff

now trump's not going to win

yeah it's not even the right thread for these speculations about him suspending the election since it's the gonna win thread not the not even gonna have elections thread

How much of that anxiety and depression stems from 'within' and how much from 'without'? Psychopathology is shot through with politics fwiw (to what extent, is the question).

calling people worried abt a peaceful transition of power under Donald fucking Trump "neurotic" is...something else

anyway the enemy is not "at the gates" it's in our fucking city streets right now

god I wish the IT guy would hurry up and fix my computer so I could get back to work

most of you should probably stop reading the news it's not good for you. you think being attuned to the daily outrages and doomscrolling is making you more vigilant but it's maladaptive behavior.

there's already a thread for that kind of discussion, mordy. you made it: The Eschatology of ILX

the way you're reviving that conversation on other threads, like this one - what are the words? it seems vigilant but maladaptive

stop assuming it's "not good for" people to read the news, this just reads like pure projection. Maybe it's not good for you, which is fine.

I actually have bigger problems closer to home than Trump right now, this is not what's jeopardizing my mental health.

Anyway it's our country going up in flames that's damaging, not "reading about it" or talking about it ffs

it's our country going up in flames

lmao we are NOT this lucky

This country survived 1968-1972. But that was pre-Twitter, so I understand everyone's despair.

"lmao we are NOT this lucky

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.)"

give it time, simon, i've seen what's going on in your country - you will be as "lucky" as we are soon enough

"most of you should probably stop reading the news it's not good for you. you think being attuned to the daily outrages and doomscrolling is making you more vigilant but it's maladaptive behavior.

― Mordy"

mordy i feel for you about your depression and anxiety, and i am really sorry if this is making you feel bad. if you need to step the fuck away from this thread step the fuck away, i'm sorry we don't yet have a dedicated thread for a literal military fascist takeover and that i've repurposed this one to complain about how we don't have one, i'm not sure that seeing a thread about that on the front page would help anybody else feel better personally so i'm not starting one.

you do what you need to do to take care of yourself, you do what you need to do to stay alive, but what i need to do right now as someone who is in a state of extreme anxiety is _not_ be quiet about it _not_ take a fucking benzo about it, i need to fucking talk about this, i need to tell people this is real, this is really fucking happening, and i'm sorry if i seem to be presenting with symptoms of mental illness for doing so, i'm the fucking canary you have here.

hey I always say Canadian politics is just American politics on a variable time delay

hyperventilation or complicity: your two options, people!

I choose the third option. I choose to SING!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ROqhIv17Q

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eLqyRS8z0-Y/maxresdefault.jpg

This country survived 1968-1972. But that was pre-Twitter, so I understand everyone's despair.

I hear this kind of thing a lot a lot and am genuinely puzzled by it. Is the idea that every period of tumult poses the same existential threat?

That things get worse and then better again, in cycles, is not an argument against entropy or deepening trends with greater consequences.

Anyway it's super condescending.

hey I always say Canadian politics is just American politics on a variable time delay

Simon is our resident Canadian catastrophist tbf.

this will be a one-post derail I promise, but: Francophones are more than capable of being (and electing) reactionaries

Really, though, our politics are quite different from yours, although I think a non negligible segment of the (primarily anglophone) population is jealous of the excitement generated by the US's interminable series of culture wars.

xp et comment !

we're not gonna be as lucky as we were in '08 when that next financial crisis hits lemme tell ya

anyway I don't think the American *or* Canadian projects will see a full institutional collapse anytime soon much as they richly deserve to!

Not sure ours deserves it as richly but ymmv.