love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

employers are not going to react how the government wants, I don't think. You don't volunteer to have your staff get sick in order to help save Pret ffs

People keep trying to pick holes in these figures like it's all being inflated for some shady purpose.

Press encouraging it all the way and I've already had relatives falling for it.

Hancock literally announcing an urgent enquiry because of a report from Oxford that hasn't yet been peer-reviewed and seems full of dogwhistle political bias.

I thought the ONS higher than usual recorded death figures for the Rona spike suggested our official figures are too low if anything? I mean fuck this bullshit anyway, it reeks!

employers are not going to react how the government wants, I don't think. You don't volunteer to have your staff get sick in order to help save Pret ffs

I've had lot of first hand discussions about this stuff and overwhelmingly they're saying they're not going to make anyone go in if they're not comfortable, certainly not before 2021. That might be different in boiler room call centre environments but in general WFH seems to be working fine regardless of how challenged the businesses themselves are. It's certainly less disruptive than having a virus raging round the office.

To give an anecdote from the other side, an acquaintance who works in hedge fund management (obv would never call someone who does so a friend) has had his boss freak out about people not wanting to go back in the office for months already - they never actually shut down and always had a few ppl in, including ppl who had the virus.

nb this is the same boss who made a Brexit Day cake w/ a giant UK flag surrounded by tiny little flags of the countries that all the employees come from and thought that was a nice gesture

The biggest problem for call centres - that i guess would also extend to some finance stuff - is that, aiui, you can't have people working from home handling customer payment information. Again, with India - where BPOs are a major part of the economy, the approach has been that you can't legally have more than one employee in every three in the office.

Actually, on that subject, i've heard anecdotally that there are a few US businesses looking to move call centres back onshore as there's less chance of government-mandated closures but idk how common that is or whether it also applies to the UK.

pic.twitter.com/ddL19HWkfh

— Simon Hedges (@Orwell_Fan) July 17, 2020

Watching the making of the Olympic 2012 opening ceremony and I have weeped 6 times already. I love my country very much.

— Jess Phillips MP (@jessphillips) July 17, 2020

i went to take the piss and the next tweet under Phillips agreeing with her was Lloyd R-M so fuck both of them

"progressive patriotism" lol what a wanker!

with friends like this i don't need any friends

xxp my employer is working with several call centres which are operating with staff all working from home. I think it takes a bit of set-up but basically people can tap in card/account numbers on their phone rather than reading them out, and the details are never accessed/handled by staff.

It’s mad how a sporting event opening ceremony is something which purely exists for us to take the piss out of and have commentators make snide remarks about, until we host one and it’s a fucking sacred moment in history to weep about for millennia

What a truly embarrassing country

God I loved the con dem coalition days. The Olympic ceremony, the 2011 riots, it was just an optimistic time for this great country. What went wrong?

progressive patriotism = making a cup of tea for people before you deport them iirc

xp as ever, blame for this tragedy lies with Jreyme Conryb

it happened in that golden era when Tories were still nice and only killing hundreds of disabled ppl rather than thousands and Yvette Cooper was attacking Hostile Environment for being too damn soft, a time of gentler and more civil political discourse.

why do these people hate populism so much when their entire political strategy is racism and flags

"It'll be fine by Christmas," seems such an odd promise in the context of reports that a second spike might lead to 120 000 deaths. Still, I was slightly anticipating a slightly more ridiculous press conference (along the lines of "you actually all can go back to work").

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdJ08DHWAAE8aBU?format=jpg&name=large

I'm starting to think that post might have been misunderstood sarcasm, because Phillips was apparently scheming for him to have his whip removed?

No, that’s another Phillips - Euan, who made hundreds of antisemitism complaints and is discussed in the leaked report.

ah, he probably is a tool then!

Phillips is a cursed name

The Ace With The Mace is clearly an emotional chap, I 100% believe he cries watching the 2012 opening ceremony.

I mean hopefully not the bits with Frank Turner and Ed Sheeran in them but still.

Every time I think about Frank fucking Turner getting a slot it just enrages me, like who was asking for that?

Going to bite on this one. Patriotism and flag-waving is silly and banal but why not just stick a flag on it and shut down that flank? It seems to matter to some people and not doing opens up space for accusations of they dont love our country innit they love the palestine more than they love their own mothers they dont care

I love britain, frack any of it get banged

britain is a racist endeavour, loving it is never ok

That's it, I love Britain.

bloody love a bit of Blighty me

I've got that Alan Vega track, "Viet Vet" going through my head now:

"He loves his country
It's the greatest, it's the greatest"

you don't have to be a bit mad tory to live here but it sure helps!

its UK garage not EU garage chat shit get banged

Don't really give a shit about strategy, fuck a patriot, open the borders

I mean I guess it's like religion, not my place to question other people's faith, but at least religion has some up sides.

I don't have any real interest in either patriotism or religion but I don't know that 'oh we don't have any space for either of those, you want to try those other cunts down the road" is all that good an idea, that explicity saying we disapprove of these things even in the abstract, I don't get what the point is in terms of building broad coalitions without having to compromise at all on substance

I know there'll be valid reasons other than "oo, icky tho" but I'm not super clear on what they are

any personal interest in either I should say, but I don't feel intrinsic opposition to them particularly either

I know all countries are made up but, the UK? WTF is it and what's it for?

xp the strategic error of taking this view is playing into the hands of the Tories, and anyone impressed by Tory flag waving and talk of “patriotism” is highly unlikely to be convinced by Labour doing it, nor are they likely to buy into a vision of patriotism that includes rather than excludes. It is also bound to turn off other parts of the voter coalition.

the shor kid mentioned on the US thread is right. the tories win on 'patriotism' all day long unless there's a specific circumstance that flips it (and no, russian interference doesn't count here). the more you talk about it, the more you're on their turf. just get off it and onto subjects people prefer you on. otherwise you're dukakis in the tank.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2125/production/_102858480_mallett1.jpg

"progressive patriotism"

These are good answers, I definitely see what gyac says and yes if it's not convincing it becomes laughable. But that sorta then becomes the problem, if politicians wanting office within a country on some level don't actually seem to like that country...isn't that kind of weird to a lot of people?

Bernard Sanders seems to do ok at it? It's probably easier in US than UK. Is it that impossible? If you asked public if idk Gary Neville was 'patriotic' I think they'd say yes?

No need to mention you're patriotic out of the blue any more than that you're religious. If someone brings it up, a journalist say - simply reply "of course! who doubts this??" or "what a question mate! wouldn't be an MP if I weren't mate. Maaaaate."

I'm not sure how anyone can be patriotic about the UK tbh.

No need to mention you're patriotic out of the blue any more than that you're religious. If someone brings it up, a journalist say - simply reply "of course! who doubts this??

Thats more or less where I'm going, answering "Yes" as though the question is do you like the beers, and not "Well its a complex question and it really depends what you mean when you say...."

People who ask need a bit of a dressing down with it too though. I mean it's just fucking rude.

Slippery slope for Jess now. Which were the six bits of the ceremony that triggered the tears? The more patriotic bits? Or just that shit with Mr Bean? With or without the facts we will make up our own minds.