Free Speech and Creepy Liberalism

True intellectualism is only achieved by reflexively supporting every person whose positions you disagree with no matter how vile. I agreed because I also disagreed and that’s how we can all agree. Debateception. https://t.co/wD7DqN6Jbz

— della - anachronistic labor organizer (@della_morte_) July 8, 2020

the only way out of this Fucked mess (sorry dril) is tbh good-faith engagement between different coalitions, and it feels like things are increasingly entrenched

otm -- on a tactical level regarding taking down the fascists in charge, this type of stuff is just not productive. But there are other goals and agendas going on ... and not just getting rid of the fascists in charge. There definitely is a shit-ton of insular posturing and power plays with these letters and thinkpieces and call-outs, etc.

but also not otm -- Though when one is inside, or kinda inside or familiar with the inside, these things are important. ... Like on the one hand you have the "we just have to think of the big picture" ideology that is dismissive of stuff like outrage over white supremacy and/or rape culture in academic poetry circles. ... But, people have daily lives and work and some of that involves academic poetry circles, and if they see injustice and grossness in these smaller cultures, then they shouldn't be shamed for that. ... It's like shaming the abused partner of a righteous activist or everyone's favorite musician or whatever. ... it often results in this feeling of "you should shut up and suffer for the greater good." ... And if the "greater good" is supposed to entail equity and uh, people not being abused by their more powerful partners, then it would make a fuckton of sense for you to stop and say, "wait a minute ... so, this greater good is what exactly?"

I think there's also the historical "sons killing the fathers and taking their place in power" thing going on ... the people signing this letter have power that is threatened. It is natural that they would be defensive. It is also natural that those they are afraid of feel like it is "their turn."

Idk on a local level, I've seen good examples of "cancel culture" and some really egregious bad ones that are like the caricatures the "creepy liberals" pose. ... I'm not going to go into detail because no one involved is like "important" ... except for maybe to a couple of people on this thread, and we can discuss it privately ... Hi Ted! Miss you!

Argue as much as you want, but obey!

— Asad Haider (@generalityiii) July 8, 2020

classic

Good to see you can still get paid for taking a shit online, consuming that shit (for money) and then vomiting it up again for yet more money.

2 girls 1 open letter

hot take incoming! i agree with jesse "virtue" singal's extremely trenchant headline - the reaction _does_ prove why it was necessary! if singal and crew don't act, repeatedly and blatantly, in bad faith, the intersectional left would have nothing to do but have arcane debates on theory with no relevance to anybody's life. it's only when important liberals pull this sort of horseshit that anybody has any reason to _listen_ to us when we talk about why this is a fucking huge ongoing problem. people learn slowly, over and over again, and it's not through repeated applications of "edge cases", it's through repeated uncalled for, unnecessary, and egregiously wrong actions taken by "public intellectuals". if they didn't keep setting up big neon signs pointing to their privilege it would be a lot harder for people to see.

mmhmm

It sorta feels like a bunch of large nutritious fish hurled themselves into our boat before we could even bait the water

— Jesse Singal (@jessesingal) July 7, 2020

Hilariously ridiculous. And several people on there who have tried to cancel me personally. The weakness of liberalism is totally out in the open.

— Dave Rubin (@RubinReport) July 7, 2020

this is lol tho

lol he’s so mad they didn’t ask him, the one guy so dumb most of the IDW keeps him at arm’s length

I hope J3ss3 Sing@l gets a loathsome disease btw

otm

Please burn my book

I signed the Harpers letter because there were lots of people who also signed the Harpers letter whose views I disagreed with. I thought that was the point of the Harpers letter. https://t.co/ozFsAmXq9R

— Malcolm Gladwell (@Gladwell) July 8, 2020

weirdly gladwell's tweet is only the second worst there, even if he is a colossally awful human

Please burn my book

― anvil

please publish my book and then burn it

I hope J3ss3 Sing@l gets a loathsome disease btw

― all cats are beautiful (silby)

am really straining to imagine something that would make them more loathsome

I feel like McWhorter gave away what he thinks is being cancelled, saying he doesn't get invited to linguistics conferences because of his views on things not related to linguistics, and that students are prevented from hearing his important ideas. And yeah I guess this is the kind of stuff leftist profs complained about back in the 70s, but it's just academic conferences- wgaf? McWhorter's voice is amplified a lot more than most linguists' are.

HOT OFF THE PRESS

What kind of demand would you have liked? Someone’s firing? That was the point of the letter, to simply express support the right of people to disagree without consequence. https://t.co/HP4PaGu1pZ

— Matt Taibbi (@mtaibbi) July 8, 2020

And yeah I guess this is the kind of stuff leftist profs complained about back in the 70s, but it's just academic conferences- wgaf? McWhorter's voice is amplified a lot more than most linguists' are.

Yeah, but if (as he has stated many times) he would rather be known as a linguist, and build his stature within the academy, than as a political pundit, lining up Sunday morning talk show bookings, I could see how this could be a real problem.

does taibbi pay people to search his name to defend him on twitter or does he just have a lot of sock puppets

there are certain things about him you can’t say w/o being swarmed & i can see what he wants to maintain that state of affairs

"certain things"

he’s a rapist

oh no is that cancellation

Maybe if you keep trying hard enough.

will do

Yeah, but if (as he has stated many times) he would rather be known as a linguist, and build his stature within the academy, than as a political pundit, lining up Sunday morning talk show bookings, I could see how this could be a real problem.

― but also fuck you (unperson)

sure, i could see why he wouldn't want to be lumped in with people like noam chomsky... uhh....

if singal and crew don't act, repeatedly and blatantly, in bad faith, the intersectional left would have nothing to do but have arcane debates on theory with no relevance to anybody's life

ha i love this!

shouldn't bill gates have the right to only be talked about in terms of his philanthropy? i mean, that whole microsoft thing was a really long time ago...

bill gates wants to kill americans with his evil coronavirus masks iirc

my theory over the past few weeks is that matt taibbi is trying to pivot to a conservative outlet

xp - otoh windows 10 isn't as bad as I thought it was at first

like i've never been a fan but he's been on some other shit recently xp

he doesn't get invited to linguistics conferences

Maybe he should try applying like the rest of us have to

This was the only half-way decent thread that both came in from the left and tried to argue that this statement had something right about it. From a free speech angle.

Lots of good replies that largely argued with it/shoot it down

broadly agree with this harper's letter tbh https://t.co/d43O9i5QmL

— Lafargue (@Lafargue) July 7, 2020

The thread starter expands more on his initial statement as he's asked about it, not a thread as such.

my theory over the past few weeks is that matt taibbi is trying to pivot to a conservative outlet
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, July 8, 2020 8:03 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

easier paycheck riding the grift I guess

I'll be the stan I guess. The idea that Matt Taibbi is cynically deciding to grab for money with his latest takes seems pretty ludicrous to me. The idea that you would only read/take seriously the ideas of someone that you completely agree with is very... ILX?

his last few substack newsletters have been absolute dogshit on an argument and prose level i’m sorry

like it’s beneath him

that's newsletters for ya

I'm not sure what sucks people into the whining about how bad "our" side is, but it definitely isn't a great look, given the crimes on the right. OTOH, when people (itt) say stuff like "look at how effective it has been [to shut down debate/de-platform, etc.]," they're right, but they cannot be blind to the irony of pushing an ends-justifies-the-means argument.

perhaps ILX can make its own conservative television network, and surreptitiously donate all of our millions to left-wing causes

will it be 24 hour wolf erotica?

The idea that you would only read/take seriously the ideas of someone that you completely agree with is very... ILX?

Gonna be deeply upset if not blindly de-platforming and shutting down any human who doesn't hold and regurgitate my exact opinions back at me like a Leninist is now grounds for being labelled a "Matt Taibbi stan" :(

Like why would you ever listen to the opinion of anyone who thinks Aja>Gaucho ffs

a lot smartarses on this thread who don't remember when the Dead Kennedys told nazi punks to fuck off and the nazi punks fucked off and now there's no nazi punks and DUMPLINGS!! has been weakened

Can confirm, have never met a nazi punk.

Lol

On canceling

161,000 people are currently Cancelled for drug possession. possession. 470,000 Cancelled for drug related offenses

Cancelled as in currently locked in a cage

— emma (@angelhoneycomb) July 9, 2020

The idea that you would only read/take seriously the ideas of someone that you completely agree with is very... ILX?

May I introduce you to the rest of the internet? Always funny to me when ppl seem unaware of how lukewarm ILX is.