a little surprised to see Dahlia Lithwick
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:47 (three years ago) link
I don't follow McWhorter's political stuff at all, I dare not, but his excellent writing and lectures on linguistics was my way in to the subject and so I still feel a need to defend him for some stupid reason.
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
xp yes he does, he's been working a lucrative side career as a sensible-voice-of-reason for years now
― j., Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
I can spot the posters who are v pro-free speech for anyone who agrees with them
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:53 (three years ago) link
i deleted such a scorcher from the post box lol. you guys would have been so owned. it was gonna be sweeeeeet
― lumen (esby), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
debate is wank but free speechers don’t even want that they just want the plebs to shut up and do as they say. bourgeois liberalism is basically the alt right now
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
Would be nice just to have an official proclamation of exactly what "free speech" means from every world government which would then be prominently displayed in public places.
Anyone who publicly disagreed with it should then be given a show trial and be sent to work in the salt mines, that would stop Count dankula making those stupid fucking videos for a start.
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
it's interesting that the cultural/meme-ic uptake was for the idea of 'cancellation', presumably a direct transfer from the cancellation of shows because of (moral) scandals befalling/perpetrated by the creative staff for them (or sometimes entirely within their content), because the people who complain most about it now seem to enjoy many of the perks of the opposite, viz. being culturally scheduled. the idea of a 'platform' is like that, but it doesn't get at the same way in which these people have a presumption to always have attention come back around to them, and to be broadcast to people who choose from a small range of options (channels). and obviously it's helped to exceed the bounds of that framework by political polarization and narrow horizons of possibilities, to become the idea that anyone and everyone within a certain scope / past a certain level is entitled to the perks of espousing some point of view which is systemically bound to be repeated at certain intervals in a rightful order.
― j., Tuesday, 7 July 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
how do you pin a tweet on a thread
a bunch of rich people are tired of getting feedback— octave (@curtofranklin) July 7, 2020
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:02 (three years ago) link
The circle of concern of intellectuals has become so narrow and insular that it's basically a defense of its own class issues in the guise of statements about freedom. There is no interest whatsoever in the crises facing the nation at large.— John Ganz (@lionel_trolling) July 7, 2020
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:03 (three years ago) link
Not sure either tweet applies to, say, Kamel Daoud.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:04 (three years ago) link
Lame to see jeet in there, I find he’s on point most of the time, probably should’ve checked in to see who else was signing and adhered to the failsafe rule “Don’t put your name to anything that’s been co-signed by Bari Weiss”
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:06 (three years ago) link
…or Khaled Khalifa. I think it's safe to assume that not everyone signed this open letter for the same reasons.
xp
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:08 (three years ago) link
lol xp was about to say recommend viewing anything Katie Herzog signs onto with extreme prejudice
― JoeStork, Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
disappointed to see david blight, garry wills, and a couple other cool ppl on this list
extremely not-surprised to see greil marcus here, honestly
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:17 (three years ago) link
You know who actually lost his job and didn't sign this spineless piece of shit' statement? Salaita. But that's because him and anyone with any sense knows this is upper-class liberal hand-wringing because these idiots are afraid.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:25 (three years ago) link
Forgive bad grammar, I just hate this so much I'm losing my cool. I also just shotgunned a Steel Reserve.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
probably should’ve checked in to see who else was signing and adhered to the failsafe rule “Don’t put your name to anything that’s been co-signed by Bari Weiss”
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
xp nice
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
letter is vague enough that you could agree w it w/o knowing what it really means, esp if you’re not imbedded this in mind numbing discourse where every other word is some ingroup code & nothing actually means what it looks like it means on the surface. idk how many of these ppl that applies to, I’m not too generous
you sometimes get people folding actual censorship/harassment/violence by the powerful against vulnerable people into “cancel culture” which could make it look less of a non issue even tho 9/10 times it’s decried are when there’s mild pushback against this behaviour. there are good words for those other things which aren’t tied to a moral panic about celebrities and pop intellectuals not getting their arses kissed enough
― If you choose too long a name, your new display name will be truncated in (Left), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 22:30 (three years ago) link
I would quite possibly OTM it anyway but the way it's written, it's tbh too vague and chickenshit to say much.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 00:28 (three years ago) link
How is this a free speech issue? Who is being silenced? Do these people think that other people exercising their own speech to tell them to fuck off means their freedom of speech is being taken away? Also, hasn't Harper's fired like multiple editors over the last couple of decades because their perspectives were too liberal? how is that not "being cancelled"?
― Dan I., Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:13 (three years ago) link
Lithwick is the only person on that list that I'm surprised at and disappointed in.
I don’t really care what this letter says, I’m just putting it in the pile with the rest of the anti-trans bullshit that Harper’s has peddled.
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:27 (three years ago) link
wtf happened to Harper's, I had a subscription ~15 years ago and always enjoyed it
― Dan I., Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:32 (three years ago) link
Matthew Yglesias & Jeet Heer but no Matt Taibbi
I think the people who organize stuff like this have never heard of Matt Taibbi
xp or Salaita
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:35 (three years ago) link
Lewis Lapham wrote like a small town Gore Vidal imitator.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:35 (three years ago) link
Someone on Twitter wrote 'give Chomsky TERF bangs' and I can't stop crying laughing
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:49 (three years ago) link
oh no
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:50 (three years ago) link
I don't expect the average person to know who Salaita is, but that one of the most obvious recent examples of an academic losing their job over protected speech didn't sign on is evidence that these people are hand-wringing liberal fakes who deserve nothing but scorn
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 01:58 (three years ago) link
Not sure either tweet applies to, say, Kamel Daoud.― pomenitul, mardi 7 juillet 2020 17:04 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink…or Khaled Khalifa. I think it's safe to assume that not everyone signed this open letter for the same reasons.xp― pomenitul, mardi 7 juillet 2020 17:08 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― pomenitul, mardi 7 juillet 2020 17:04 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― pomenitul, mardi 7 juillet 2020 17:08 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
More privileged concern trolling from Salman Rushdie. Learn to take some feedback!
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 02:07 (three years ago) link
haha ikr everything's gotta be a fatwa with this guy
― j., Wednesday, 8 July 2020 02:19 (three years ago) link
every fuckin month another 'fall of the roman empire' column
he wasn't wrong, just exhausting and premature
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 02:23 (three years ago) link
that *is* a surprise, maybe he got a peek at the guestlist in advance
― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 02:26 (three years ago) link
oh so here’s where we’re talking about this bullshit
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 03:27 (three years ago) link
just be glad it can still be localized
― j., Wednesday, 8 July 2020 03:31 (three years ago) link
Imagine if people took the same swift effect wrt mass-blocking this gaggle of morons that they did with the list of people that followed Nick Mullen on Twitter
― The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 03:32 (three years ago) link
one of the most obvious recent examples of an academic losing their job over protected speech
I totally agree that it's bizarre and inexplicable that this entire incident, relevant by any standardd, has somehow been memory-holed.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 03:32 (three years ago) link
Well, at least I know about it now.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 04:29 (three years ago) link
here's what salaita wrote a couple weeks ago: https://stevesalaita.com/should-we-cancel-cancel-culture/
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 05:42 (three years ago) link
The coalition begins to crumble
I did not know who else had signed that letter. I thought I was endorsing a well meaning, if vague, message against internet shaming. I did know Chomsky, Steinem, and Atwood were in, and I thought, good company. The consequences are mine to bear. I am so sorry.— Jennifer Finney Boylan 🐕 (@JennyBoylan) July 7, 2020
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 09:53 (three years ago) link
presumably all the replies to that are "sounds like SOMEBODY doesn't believe in free speech after all!"
and tbf they'd have a point, this is cowardly vacillation is it not
― imago, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 09:58 (three years ago) link
anyway this third-way culture war uprising doesn't seem especially good-faith across the board, but as a general rule we should all try to cancel each other a bit less imo
― imago, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 09:59 (three years ago) link
it's almost like putting your signature on vaguely worded letters with a bunch of other people you don't know might be... a bad idea?
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:01 (three years ago) link
yeah but if you have done it, own it, this is probably the kind of *horrified* social-media handwringing that a lot of the more well-meaning signatories are sick of
― imago, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:02 (three years ago) link
the real problem is that the word "canceling" has been (often deliberately) misunderstood, we could just use different words, but then they would also inevitably be (often deliberately) misunderstood
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:03 (three years ago) link
well yeah there should be a difference between being cancelled for sexual assault and cancelled for having a reactionary opinion, but it suits both cancellers and the cancelled to conflate the two, everyone is invested in maximising conflict and drama
― imago, Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:05 (three years ago) link
Otm about owning it once you agreed to have your name under it.
We could easily fill a "100 things of multi-signed open letters"-thread. There'll be the people who regret signing it, the people who'll say they support the message but didn't know that fucking X dumbass signed it as well, the people who in hindsight regret with the letter's aim but not the wording etc etc etc
Multi-signed open letters are bad not good. This is canon.
― Scampidocio (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:09 (three years ago) link
everyone is invested in maximising conflict and drama
i swear i misread this as marximising conflict and drama
― Scampidocio (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:10 (three years ago) link
Salaita's been thinking and writing about these issues for a long time, and gets it right more often than not.
Re: the memory-holing, it's safe to say that many people will not touch those who dare to treat the issue in Palestine as it is: an apartheid state that began with an extensive campaign of ethnic cleansing directed by the shapers of the modern Israeli state. Because Salaita insisted on this point of fact, and continues to do so, he will never have the imprimatur of liberals who are worried that by standing up for what's right, they'll be read as anti-Semites. Super fucked, IMHO.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 10:10 (three years ago) link