Is this anti-semitism?

my opinion is that the hunger to link israel to US police brutality is pretty telling of the speaker's interests + motivations. i read one writer reply to this claim that the US didn't need to go to Israel to learn how to kill black ppl.

You may wish to avoid the ukpol threads even more than usual, then.

the police learned it from sacha baron cohen iirc

Peake said she was wrong fwiw

I mean you should certainly never approvingly retweet something you haven't read, especially if you're a high-ranking government official

it's a long interview!

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/maxine-peake-interview-labour-corbyn-keir-starmer-black-lives-matter-a9583206.html

If you're a politician and you're going to tweet your approval it would be a good idea to read the whole thing down to each semi-colon and comma.

especially if, as I assume, your boss has a team of people dedicated to reviewing your public statements for reasons to fire you

And in as explosive a context as this one.

Yes, on both counts.

polish sensitivity about complicity in the holocaust is a really big thing involved legislation a year or so ago that made a minor imbroglio w/ the israeli gov. many years ago i wrote about a comic book that took place in sobibor and made the terrible mistake of calling it a polish death camp. i knew of course that it was polish in that it was in poland and not that the polish people ran it but there was an enormous tumult w/ lots of angry letters and thread discussions on polish language forums. it does seem pathological to some extent even putting aside what we know (like that many polish ppl were collaborators) bc how many americans could tell you anything about poland and ww2 really. sorta a non-issue unless it's gnawing at you.

I will admit a huge failure on my part here— my mom was born in a German DMZ, her parents were in Nazi work camps in Poland, and she is one of these people who insists on "clearing Poland's good name" and that "the Jews were treated great in pre-war Poland, why were there so many there!" etc etc.

I made the mistake of arguing with her about this at a dinner at a Vietnamese restaurant, she was two glasses of wine in, and yelled at me when I called her out on her anti-Semitism, "HOW DO YOU SPELL BETRAYAL? ANSWER ME"

I walked out of the restaurant and didn't speak to her for a while, but because of my health issues last year and some other things, I haven't brought it up again...though I have sent her many articles about the homophobia endemic to Polish society (which I certainly experience when I was there fifteen years ago).

Anyway, it makes me feel fucking awful that she's swallowing this shit up.

A link is being made between two nations that have hard hitting police forces. It’s most likely a factually wrong statement, but it’s not anti-semitism surely.

I don’t dare look at twitter and see how the word ‘diamond’ in this context is being reviewed though...

Oof table, that sucks :(

"i read one writer reply to this claim that the US didn't need to go to Israel to learn how to kill black ppl."

So why are they doing this?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joint-us-israel-police-and-law-enforcement-training

Well that's something that began as out of 9/11 but then used as an opportunity to share on community policing much later on.

(Btw, Peake back-tracked after it cost a Britisher opposition cabinet job but the tweet isn't very convincing, lacks detail)

Peake probably saw some bullshit on FB and repeated it undigested. she sounds way too confident in that interview

I only know of her because of her engagement in politics (I saw a thing she was on but had to go on wiki to check). I think it's more that she does acting for a job and isn't used to framing things in a proper way.

A link is being made between two nations that have hard hitting police forces. It’s most likely a factually wrong statement, but it’s not anti-semitism surely.

It definitely is. It's zionist conspiracy talk. It doesn't come in a vaccuum, it's part of a larger meme out there that Israel trains US police to be brutal.

(nb: the original interview now features a correction stating that the newspaper independently confirmed that it was false that minneapolis police learned this from Israeli police/mossad/whatever)

On the other hand, Israeli military/self-defense et al. is constantly lofted up as the gold standard of military/self-defense training. Krav Maga is kind of the go-to martial art for people who really want to kick someone's ass and/or tone their abs or whatever. Then there's all the Black Cube bullshit. I don't think people need to turn to Israel to learn how to be brutal, but ... some people do turn to Israel for this shit. I mean, I'm not anti-semitic, but I know what these things are, because their reputation precedes them.

Black Cube? Is that different from the conspiracy theory upthread?

is it anti-semitism to come out and say that krav is fine as combatives go but mostly lol

hard to find any article that's neutral and informative about the Israeli training programs, this one was interesting: https://www.revealnews.org/article-legacy/us-police-get-antiterror-training-in-israel-on-privately-funded-trips/

I don't know anything about that Black Cube, really. This one is the Israeli private intelligence agency:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cube

xpost I have no idea if krav is any good, I just know it is fashionable, and "it's Israeli" is kind of its selling point.

There is no question that police from US cities have done Israeli trainings, trips, etc. The crossover into antisemitism happens when it becomes about Israel as the root or source of police brutality, as though there is some kind of zionist agenda to make police kill black people, rather than a preexisting racist police system in the US that is merely seeking to learn techniques from another racist police force.

OTM

It should be obvious that Derek Chauvin did not learn to knee a neck from the IDF.

Yeah, I don't see why anyone would think that, but then, I don't understand most anti-semitism, and anyone inclined toward anti-semitism already is sure to find all sorts of reasons to think and say anti-semitic stuff. Zionist agenda to kill black people? Sure, why not, if it's not that it would be something else. Though certainly this is the first I've encountered the notion that Jews/Israel is responsible for brutal and/or racist police policy in the US. Like the US needs help on that front, right?

The Israeli military trains US police in racist and repressive policing tactics, which systematically targets Black and Brown bodies. The recent murders of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery are examples of racialized, systematized violence. https://t.co/DJ7T2qh6RL

— US Campaign for Palestinian Rights (@USCPR_) May 28, 2020

Also: it doesn't seem like these Israeli exchange programs are necessarily that significant in the grand scheme of all of the training and instruction US police get, and also they are (at least ostensibly) typically targeted at "anti-terrorism" so I doubt they include anything along the lines of putting your knee on someone's neck, shooting a person in the back, etc.

One problem with Israel specifically identifying itself as a "Jewish state" is that it conflates Israeli state policy with Judaism in many people's minds. The IDF is a manifestation of Israel's defense policy, therefore all IDF activities are "jewish". This conflation will continue until Israel decides to disentangle itself from its specifically jewish identity.

according to the article I posted, US police were learning techniques to suppress protests, along with "counter-terrorism", and maybe some of those techniques were used in the past month.

Weirdly, one of my oldest friends has a nephew in the IDF. Nephew is the grandson of the Mr. Simpson whose first wife was Wallis; Mr Simpson’s only son (with his second wife) was a Coldstream Guard who ran away to Israel to join the IDF in the ‘50s, changed his surname and later became a free-diving expert. He married my friend’s sister, who is also a free diver, and their kid finished basic training about a year ago. Friend (who is Extremely Catholic) is super-uneasy about the idea of nephew shooting Palestinians.

This piece fleshes out Mordy's link (it has some similar timelines) with more details and why -- even if the exchange in techniques is between several police forces worldwide --Maxine Peake singled out Israel:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-us-police-training-end-knee-neck-protests

(that piece was posted by plax on ukpol thread btw)

This is on Peake's other interests.

I mean Maxine Peake does talk about loads of other issues all the time, is a Patron for @ocalanfree for instance, and does a lot to raise awareness of Turkey’s repression of Kurds. But sure she’s just single-mindedly obsessed with Israel cos she raises it in an interview?

— Rosa (@rosagilbert) June 25, 2020

found some: https://sports.yahoo.com/desean-jackson-eagles-instagram-fake-hitler-quote-anti-semitism-farrakhan-034221683.html

That's definitely anti-Semitism. Not a defense at all, but I always think it worth noting that football should be banned because it destroys its' players brains.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/02/finland-s-air-force-phasing-out-swastika-symbol-from-its-logos

political correctness gone mad

Maybe if more people used the swastika it would lose its power.

They forgot to mention that Eric von Rosen was Hermann Göring's brother-in-law. Pure happenstance, no doubt.

desean jackson is an idiot but he apologized and i'm sure will give a more thorough serious apology later -- i don't think he should be cut and one thing i like about the eagles is that they've always seemed to be committed to forgiveness and second chances for their players whether it's from dog fighting, or drug use, or n-word use, or imo black hebrew israelite antisemitism. esp if he's willing to be contrite.

Very magnanimous of you, Mordy, I think all hell would have broken loose if anyone in the public eye in the UK had posted that material, whereas it just seems to have been shrugged off as one of those things in the US. It's a funny old world and no mistake, cor blimey guv'nor.

tbf he's a football player not a politician; my expectations are different.

aye mate, fancy to viddy some footy, wot wot

Afaic, someone who hung a dog from a noose and then used a nailgun to nail it to a tree through its throat shouldn't be allowed to live in human society any longer, much less be forgiven for that sin and make millions of dollars a year doing so, but I guess I'm always seen as the unreasonable one in this argument.

tl;dr: Michael Vick deserves nothing but eternal shaming and expulsion from society for what he did.

yeah fuck the Eagles. the band and the team.

xp not unreasonable - i think the urge for punishment + expungement of moral contamination to be v understandable but i prefer rehabilitation + forgiveness as a general model for justice. vick served his time in prison and through his speech and actions demonstrated that he had repented from his former behavior and was striving to be a better person. in a field like sports where the stakes are so low modeling this sort of journey can i think be useful for pro-social transformation.