27 YEARS SINCE A CANADIAN TEAM WON THE CUP WILL THIS BE THE YEAR (no): THE NHL 2019-2020 THREAD (INCLUDING BLUES HANGOVER AND OFFSEASON SHENANIGANS. HOCKEY IS THE BEST)

Absolutely

fleury also like fuhr in playing on teams that played little defense

what a weird career thomas had -- he wasn't a legit nhl player until he was 31!

luongo is absolutely first-ballot (and better than brodeur)

v. excited by 23 new answers in the nhl thread <3

I'm super-excited about the restart, though I worry about the players and think there is a very good chance everything gets shutdown again before they can finish.

you wouldn't be in the league with that now!

Jimmy Howard at .882 this year (so you're right)

luongo is absolutely first-ballot

YES <3

(and better than brodeur)

god I wish

Guess I meant that if goalies could get in the HOF at the same rate as other players, all those guys I listed would be deserving. Like Ryan Miller, or Ron Hextall, or Pekka Rinne, were probably better goalies than Hossa or Kevin Lowe were at their positions?

if you put luongo at the back of the system the devils played . . . well, he'd probably get bored. but also, yes, better imo

Luongo was somehow better facing 40 shots a game than 15

idk, hard to judge lowe without looking at the teams he was on. fully support hossa, though -- strong defensively in addition to all the points

Ftr I’m always a big hall guy so my observations are a thought exercise rather than saying so and so shouldn’t be in but so and so should be. Except jack morris

otm

Guess I meant that if goalies could get in the HOF at the same rate as other players, all those guys I listed would be deserving. Like Ryan Miller, or Ron Hextall, or Pekka Rinne, were probably better goalies than Hossa or Kevin Lowe were at their positions?

Not disagreeing (maybe) with your overall point, I'm not sure Miller, Hextall, or Rinne are the ones to make that argument. As a Flyers' fan, I know Hextall's game well and only his first few years were HOF worthy. His comparables on hockey reference are in the Bill Ranford/Dwayne Roloson class and only made one All-Star Game. His style is a point in his favor as his puck-handling was somewhat influential. Also, he holds the season record for PIMs for a goalie with 113.

*he* only made

the bar seems higher for goalies, fairly or not

― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Also re: this i think it's more about pool/position size than selectivity (tho that factors in). there are 18 players/ team + 2 goalies, only one of which sees any PT in a usual circumstance, so we're down to 31 possibilities at any given point in time. Goalie qualifying thresholds:

"The goaltenders listed played a minimum of 500 NHL regular season games
and won over 250 NHL games or recorded 50 or more shutouts in the NHL."

So you need a goalie that plays 6 years min - that's the hard bar to cross. For example, 250/6 = 41.6 wins a year (yuck).

Per some light googling on the internet the average career of an NHL player is 5 years; assume the same for goalies.

So like the result is that you're truly excellent (you talked me into luongo as 1st ballot) and play for 15-20 years or sort of dick around for 10-12 years due in part to competence (Sean Burke/Andy Moog) or lack of creativity (potvin? hrudey? to name two Kings)

Also Nabokov has 353 fucking career wins! Beezer has 374!

also per the internet:

2021:

Jagr (!!!)
Zetterberg
The Sedin twins, if you believe they ever existed. i don't think they're good enough but idc!

2022
Jagr (depending on which source you believe he's still getting paid somewhere and isn't eligible for HHOF until he really quits)
Luongo

the sedins are as real as you and me

Hextall deserves it for the penalty minutes record alone. But I take your point.

Looking at past HOF classes it is hard to find really undeserving skaters who are in. It just seems that a skater either needs to hit a certain points threshold or win one major award to have a good chance of getting in, while one Vezina or Conn Smythe or two-three years of having the top stats in the league is not enough for a goalie. But maybe that's OK!

It's easy for fanbases to turn on goalies when they slip into mediocrity too, we don't appreciate past excellence when a goalie is killing your team every night. Maybe goalies are just not as beloved.

Like all sports, championships have an out-sized influence on one's HOF candidacy. In Lowe's case, he has 6 Cups but never came close to winning a major award and never even made an AS game, both of which should be a bare minimum to get in the HOF.

there was a effectively wild advanced stats in other sports episode that kind of kicked around the idea of goalie fungibility and how their value is more abstract than we think and how they are overvalued. Pretty sure it's this one

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1476-multisport-sabermetrics-exchange-hockey-and-cricket/

Hexy is the Fame part of Hall of Fame. Kevin Lowe has no Fame.

defensive defensemen are also let down by awards/the hall. it's not like the norris always goes to the highest-scoring guy, but the last one who wasn't even close was rod langway 35 years ago

that is not an argument for kevin lowe, who i don't recall being known as a shut-down defender

the selke is even weirder -- you have to be able to score a *bit*, but not too much. i would argue that crosby deserves legit selke consideration, but that's not happening

I am hoping Couturier wins this year; my favorite Flyer for years. His advanced stats are pretty amazing: over the last couple years he has had insane CF% while starting most of his possessions in the defensive zone. Every line they put him on does good things.

what a crazy draft lottery outcome

what happens to the draft now if they have to cancel the season again? why couldn't they have just waited to do the lottery until after this play-in round?

weird

Rigged

as a beneficiary of receiving lemieux and crosby i can't complain but . . .

fuck eugene melnyck tho

Looks like Bettman's got the fix in for the Pens again.

good man (why tho?)

gotta rig it for the big markets (like um pittsburgh)

Gotta keep them away from KC.

no i mean what this time?

have to say this seems like an incredibly awkward way to set up a draft

Don't mind me, I'm just a hater. But maybe the Flyers and Pens will meet up this playoffs.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29452716/nhl-use-fan-videos-team-specific-cheers

I don't know what the solution is, but this is dumb. Just pump in audio from EA NHL '92 and be done with it.

BRASS BONANZA AFTER EVERY GOAL

https://news.avclub.com/nbc-sued-for-anti-straight-discrimination-by-angry-ho-1844424157

oh boy

hope he doesn't sue about that url

jeremy honick

"anti straight discrimination"??? Lmfao

He scored one of my favorite goals of all time, but fuck Roenick. He's in the HOF of hockey jerks.

i'm kraken up

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Edn4-K5XgAEzYtF?format=png&name=large

funny name, don't like the logo

was looking forward to getting down to Seattle for a game some time but god knows when that will be now, sigh.

yikes

In a statement announcing that John Chayka quit as general manager and president of hockey operations, the #coyotes say they are "disappointed in his actions and his timing." pic.twitter.com/Pi7Aj5x27x

— Chris Johnston (@reporterchris) July 26, 2020

Watching Flyers-Pens. I love hockey.

watching MTL-TOR tonight: the leafs look... okay! the habs look... like they shouldn't be in the play-offs! bring on lafrenière