Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/06/sammy-hagar-get-sick-die-to-kickstart-concert-industry/

I CAN'T LIVE
TIL 75555555555555

the ongoing "hey if I'm willing to die, you should be too" argument

i don't really have an opinion on this, but food discussions sometimes ignite conversational fires on ilx, so maybe this will "stoke the flames"

I love restaurant + bar culture, perhaps more so than I should, but something about this rush to get back to a wholly unrecognizable version of them, while also being wildly unsafe and exploitive, puts the lie to the whole thing being about an experience and not just consumption.

— luke oneil (@lukeoneil47) June 23, 2020

i guess i do have an opinion, actually - while the rush to re-open by restaurant chains which regularly lobby congress to allow them to fuck over their own staff solidly fits in the evil capitalism category, there are also a lot of restaurants/bars that are locally owned and are really struggling. some of them are probably contemplating closing down for good if they can't re-open to some degree soon. it doesn't excuse putting people at risk unnecessarily, but it's a little more complicated than just pure consumption (i'm assuming they used "consumption" word as a stand-in for capitalism - consumers consume. but maybe the tweet was referring to consumption as the pure need and pleasure of eating food. in which case, i guess i do not have an opinion again)

I do think there are ways to do it safely or more safely. But lots of restaurants and bars in Orlando do. Not. Care. Like they operate like PRE-COVID

they answered - consumption means money/capitalism

Few things on earth bring me greater peace than bringing a book to a bar and reading for a couple hours. That's gone. Miami hasn't opened bars unless they mix drinks for the restaurant and they ain't opening any time soon. The three times I've eaten outside at restaurants is just not the same; it's almost not worth it.

it's not good for people to be out of work, but i don't feel much pity for owners of local businesses who 'lose their livelihoods'. given how often businesses fail and given how they're supposedly started by enterprising resilient go-getters and given how wonderful it's supposed to be for them and everyone else that they are independent and self-reliant, how are they not just facing consequences of their values that they should embrace without complaining? start another restaurant, etc. and business in general is so remorseless about tearing down the world around us and replacing it with anything that looks like it will turn a profit for owners and investors, that it seems a bit rich to suddenly be asked to weep for the ones who get caught with their pants down, thinking they could ride out another decade or three skimming lazy profits off their workers and customers.

i fully sympathise with that and think it’s mainly right but running a restaurant is the opposite of “lazy profits”. it’s incredibly hard work and not well paid and even the hottest restaurants can struggle to make money.

yeah, restaurants offer a thinner profit margin and fail more than pretty much any other business and small restaurants tend to be started by individual chefs and/or their families. I reserve some pity for any restauranteur who got fucked by covid.

bar owners on the other hand i think of (rightly or wrongly) as legal drug pushers who survive on tremendous mark up so i'm less sympathetic there.

Yeah plus i have a family who opened theirs 4 months before COVID and they're freaked out about going under because their other business was wrecked by the LAST recession.

start another restaurant, etc

I don't think it's quite this easy.

A lot of restaurants need alcohol sales to survive, too. That's what so many states OK'd carry out booze.

I might have observed it before, but the worst aspect of dining out (I almost typed "dying out") has always been other people. They're the ones that degrade the so-called experience, with noise, or drunkenness, or lack of privacy or bad service or whatever. Covid has only underscored that by emphasizing other people as an actual health concern as well. I like restaurants, I like getting food to go, but I don't like it so much that I want to deal with various dangers and safety issues just for an awkward, compromised change of scenery. I like my little backyard and my little back deck, and I know I have a better liquor and beer selection than any place I might plunk down for. So give it to me to go, restaurants, and I will take it. But I don't miss your in-person service, sorry. (Not a coincidence, almost all of my favorite go-tos were always limited dine-in, anyway.)

the money (and paperwork!) involved in opening a restaurant, and the work necessary, and how often they just fail no matter what one does . . . i find it astonishing that so many people try it

bringing a book to a bar and reading for a couple hours

a bar shouldn't have that much light.

I miss dining out and going to bars and clubs. I don't support any of these places opening in an unsafe manner, but in the absence of government backing to stay afloat, I can at least understand why they would want to open.

a bar shouldn't have that much light.

― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius)

When I'm in the bar, bartenders put on their shades.

If I didn't mention it, my friend who owns a few places says his business has ironically been OK, from a bottom-line standpoint, since they are operating with skeleton crews. It really cuts down on operating costs if you have five people working in the kitchen vs. 15. The awesome hot dog stand near my house has been doing gangbusters, as far as I can tell, by offering these great family meals that feed 4-6 (with leftovers) for $45, $65, $75 dollars. They prepare in bulk, divide up the meals, then market them as weekly specials to order in advance. Suddenly the margins are better than selling just single burgers.

And per opening unsafe, so much hinges not on the establishments but on the *fucking people.* If they were safe and followed guidelines then the establishments would be safe (see: the country as a whole). But there is only so much a proprietor can do to enforce guidelines if the customers don't cooperate.

I know it isn't easy, but I'm sorry, I don't buy this

what?

You mean re: enforcement? I don't know. My friend said it's a matter of policing, but you can't be everywhere at once. And say you come across a party of five, and Matthew Fox refuses to, say, put on his mask. How many warnings? What do you do if they ignore you? Kick him out? Kick them all out? Smell everyone's hands for soap? This isn't a situation where there may be one or two scofflaws. As we've all observed, out and about there is a whole range of divergent, inconsistent behavior we've witnessed.

I think of it like the highway. There are cops catching some people speeding, and they're there to dissuade people from speeding, but by and large, everyone is still speeding.

send him back to the island!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I mean about enforcement. In my experience checking out various businesses as they reopen, it's become very clear that some take safety and enforcement very seriously, and some just do not. With that said, there just may not be a safe way to open bars right now, in which case, they just shouldn't be open. Down here, it seems like some bars have done an exceptionally bad job and have lost their licenses as a result. This would imply that other bars are doing better, but I haven't personally been willing to find out.

Well I think Josh was partially pointing out the challenges in the difference between policing someone at the door or as they came in, versus one dude in an party of five that takes his mask off after he's already been seated.

In other words, it's easier said than done and just how much energy and time can you spend metaphorically slapping wrists when people keep trying to skirt the rules/recommendations.

Yes, there's a range of behavior and patrons, but there is also very clear range of proprietors as well, and some are more committed to safety than others. It's undoubtedly a shitty thing for states and localities to put this all in the hands of business owners the way they do here, but that's sadly where we are, and some are doing a much better job than others.

You know what would have helped? No strings-attached, no means testing monthly $$$ for every American to stay home until there's a vaccine. People out of work can survive, business owners won't feel pressure to reopen (they have bills to pay too!) Probably cheaper than what the Fed's doing! Low paid waitrons don't therefore have to become the mask police!

As far as I can tell there are lots of options for free or cheap tests right now.

xpost For sure. Especially when the margin of error is so potentially life-or-death severe. Just saying, even the best, safest places are struggling to do all they've been asked to do just to survive, but they can only do so much. Like, there are a few local restaurants I've seen that had been doing OK but closed down anyway, because it was just too much work to even break even. Or places allowed to open up again that chose not to, for the same reason. Or opened up but then closed down again.

Yes, that would certainly be better. The federal government has apparently given up in that regard.

Here in Texas we have a governor telling everyone they should stay home while also opening businesses as fast as possible, and also refusing to take any concrete action to put even a bit more restrictions in place. We are well and truly fucked.

xp

xp I also misread that but I think Boring meant cash which is not means-tested, rather than covid testing

it's not good for people to be out of work, but i don't feel much pity for owners of local businesses who 'lose their livelihoods'. given how often businesses fail and given how they're supposedly started by enterprising resilient go-getters and given how wonderful it's supposed to be for them and everyone else that they are independent and self-reliant, how are they not just facing consequences of their values that they should embrace without complaining? start another restaurant, etc. and business in general is so remorseless about tearing down the world around us and replacing it with anything that looks like it will turn a profit for owners and investors, that it seems a bit rich to suddenly be asked to weep for the ones who get caught with their pants down, thinking they could ride out another decade or three skimming lazy profits off their workers and customers.

The restaurants I go to most often are owned and run by immigrants - pho, Mexican food, poke, Ethiopian, "Mediterranean" (code for food from the Middle East around here)... Owning a business is one way for immigrant communities and POC to sidestep institutional racism that deprives them of opportunities afforded to whites. Most small businesses don't have uninvolved owners and investors, they're avenues for people to own their job. Those are the businesses most likely to go under, because they don't have access to credit to keep them afloat and they're at the mercy of landlords who want to get paid no matter what.

"No tears from me, go start another business" is how you end up with a handful of conglomerates owning and running everything. Wal-Mart can weather a storm, the mom and pop shop can't.

I don't think the answer should have been "just let them open" FWIW, but more aggressiveness with things like the EIDL/PPP to keep businesses afloat and straight up making it where bankruptcy wouldn't ruin someone's life if it came down to it.

I'm not going to restaurants and I've ordered takeout or delivery a grand total of two times since mid-March, but I guess I just wish there would be clarity on the point at which one can go to a restaurant, coffee shop, or bar without being told they're going to hell and are a disgusting person

Probably need to check Twitter for that

xp I also misread that but I think Boring meant cash which is not means-tested, rather than covid testing

djokovic sucks so hard. that's his deal.

― Yerac, Wednesday, 24 June 2020 5:04 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Djokovic is a russian experiment to see if they could decant a Twitter bot farm into an android.

about those to-go cups
https://ny.eater.com/2020/6/23/21295736/new-york-to-go-cocktails-liquor-restaurants-bars

I've ordered takeout or delivery a grand total of two times since mid-March

What do you eat? Seriously — I feel like I have at least one meal a day delivered, and I get takeout from several local places as well.

We pretty much never ate dine-in or take-out before the pandemic. We prepare all our meals at home.

Our big adjustment has been from making a weekly menu, then food shopping at three places once a week based on that menu, to shopping mainly at one place every 16 to 19 days, mostly buying a ton of miscellaneous produce, then cooking meals on an ad hoc basis depending on what is left in the refrigerator/freezer, and what is getting old or is running low. It's a challenge, but feasible enough if you get creative.

I don't think I've ever ordered takeout or delivery, as you call out, in my life. Isn't that weird? I mean, I've done it when I've been with other people but, living on my own, I've never done it.

you should give it a shot! it's awesome

plus, you can start your delivery career with the most important knowledge of all: if you order delivery at least a couple times a week, and then take the time you save by not having to make the food or travel and forth to the restaurant, and then instead use that time to learn a new skill, you will learn a minimum of 5 to 7 essential life skills every year

for example, you could learn how to cook! take an e-learning course, read some books, check out some videos, etc

i get takeout or delivery once a week max. before and during lockdown.

Sounds pretty unproductive tbh

i guess i could spend that extra time jacking it on ilx instead of cooking.

I've been getting takeout fairly regularly, and did dine in once last week, also been cooking at home a lot. Takeout and safe dine in seem like great options for anyone worried about keeping their favorite local businesses running.

xp guys . . . plenty of time for both

yerac i have now ordered a concept2; if it works out i will absolutely name my next cat after you or a related goalie

I mean nothing by it, just curiosity: do many of you cook and/or eat leftovers every day?

I cook about four times a week.