To add to yesterday's scenes in Glasgow:
Mask off Bristol. It was always about celebrating slavery not learning from history.Anyone wanna tell me again this isn't a deeply racist country?https://t.co/cdCimjFQKr— W #BLM (@Whagwan_W) June 18, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:21 (three years ago) link
I watched a Novara Media debate between two factions of Momentum. It became somewhat bitter.
Two factions of an organization that has little influence on Labour, which has little influence on the UK.
I suppose it was Borges on the Falklands all over again.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 June 2020 bookmarkflaglink
Until recently it was a pressure group that a lot of the leadership paid attention to. Given what's happening there is still a need for sections of the left to keep organising in whatever way possible instead of retiring to a library, like erm...Borges(?!)
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:26 (three years ago) link
not sure if this is still the current design of the medal but...
This is the KCMG medal. The highest order given traditionally to diplomats and overseas personnel by royalty in the New Years Honours list. Zoom into the image and you’ll see how/why the UK is built on racism. Until these traditions etc are overhauled nothing will change... pic.twitter.com/iZXqpKed8f— Wayne Reid⚡️ (@wayne_reid79) June 17, 2020
― Boris the Spreader (NickB), Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:40 (three years ago) link
This is what it is supposed to be. Still awful.
There are versions which, while keeping the traditional light/dark motif, are more clear in what they're supposed to show: pic.twitter.com/VZY1MhuMSl— 🛡️ James Calbraith ⚔️ (@eadingas) June 18, 2020
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:42 (three years ago) link
still showing as the first image on The Gazette:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/101453
― Boris the Spreader (NickB), Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:48 (three years ago) link
I think that I would support most of Momentum's goals. I am quite glad they exist. I am sure that many good people are in Momentum. I hope that they can succeed.
My point was rather that given how marginal they have now apparently become (eg: to Labour Party policy), an internecine scrap *within* Momentum seems especially marginal and probably not very effectual in concrete terms.
The rate it's going, maybe Forward Momentum and Momentum Renewal will also both split and have hustings about which faction has the best way forward for those factions.
Literally no-one can retire to a library at the moment, like it or not.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:57 (three years ago) link
I just happened to read Miranda Sawyer's radio review in the OBSERVER.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jun/13/radio-podcast-call-keir-lbc-review-shade-podcast-nut-jobs-great-post-office-trial-banged-up
We’ve been treated to Phone Farage and Call Clegg… now it’s Sir Keir Starmer’s turn to have a phone-in slot on LBC. Or “Ss-KEeah”, as most of the callers said his name, a little like a sneeze. On Monday morning, Starmer sat in on Nick Ferrari’s breakfast show, at the correct social distance, and answered listeners’ questions. Boris Johnson used to have a similar slot, but our prime minister doesn’t venture out of the house so much these days. Starmer was good, I thought: calm, clear, direct. When asked for opinions he gave them. A caller brought up Barry Gardiner, the Labour politician who had attended a Black Lives Matter demonstration: “No, he shouldn’t have done it,” said Starmer. “He was wrong.” What about the new 14-day quarantine when arriving in the UK? Starmer would prefer on-the-spot testing on arrival and then a 24-hour wait for the results at an airport hotel. (The listeners weren’t fond of that solution.) Brexit? “It’s no secret that I voted Remain… but we have left the EU. The Leave/Remain divide is over, it is gone; the argument now is about what the future relationship with the EU should look like.”Ferrari wondered if the Bristol statue of Edward Colston should have been toppled by demonstrators. It shouldn’t have been brought down “in that way”, said Starmer, but added: “That statue should have been taken down a long, long time ago… This was a man who was responsible for 100,000 people being moved from Africa to the Caribbean as slaves, including women and children who were branded on their chests with the name of the company he ran. And of the 100,000, 20,000 died en route and they were chucked in the sea.” There was no place for such a statue, he said, in 21st-century Britain. Good.It was another of Ferrari’s own questions, the last one, which proved the most revealing. “So, your parents were quite politically minded?” he asked, after Starmer said that he was named Keir after Labour party founder, Keir Hardie, and Starmer agreed that, yes, his had been a Labour family. His dad, a toolmaker, “worked in a factory all his life” and his mum, who had been a nurse, died three weeks before her son was elected as an MP. She’d had a long-term illness, said Starmer. “What was the condition she had?” said good journo Ferrari, venturing where most polite conversations don’t. It was Still’s disease, a rare condition “where your immune system attacks itself”, Starmer said. In the last years of her life, his mother couldn’t walk or speak, and had her leg amputated. “She’s never spoken to our children,” said Starmer, using the present tense. “As a teenager I spent a lot of time in high dependency units with my mum, watching the NHS saving her life.”You may like Starmer or you may not, but it was heartening to hear a politician who was steady and honest, who gave straightforward answers and was across the issues that mattered. Plus, he didn’t appear to be using the media for its ego-boosting jollies and rabble-rousing opportunities. Amazing how refreshing that seems now.
Starmer was good, I thought: calm, clear, direct. When asked for opinions he gave them. A caller brought up Barry Gardiner, the Labour politician who had attended a Black Lives Matter demonstration: “No, he shouldn’t have done it,” said Starmer. “He was wrong.” What about the new 14-day quarantine when arriving in the UK? Starmer would prefer on-the-spot testing on arrival and then a 24-hour wait for the results at an airport hotel. (The listeners weren’t fond of that solution.) Brexit? “It’s no secret that I voted Remain… but we have left the EU. The Leave/Remain divide is over, it is gone; the argument now is about what the future relationship with the EU should look like.”
Ferrari wondered if the Bristol statue of Edward Colston should have been toppled by demonstrators. It shouldn’t have been brought down “in that way”, said Starmer, but added: “That statue should have been taken down a long, long time ago… This was a man who was responsible for 100,000 people being moved from Africa to the Caribbean as slaves, including women and children who were branded on their chests with the name of the company he ran. And of the 100,000, 20,000 died en route and they were chucked in the sea.” There was no place for such a statue, he said, in 21st-century Britain. Good.
It was another of Ferrari’s own questions, the last one, which proved the most revealing. “So, your parents were quite politically minded?” he asked, after Starmer said that he was named Keir after Labour party founder, Keir Hardie, and Starmer agreed that, yes, his had been a Labour family. His dad, a toolmaker, “worked in a factory all his life” and his mum, who had been a nurse, died three weeks before her son was elected as an MP. She’d had a long-term illness, said Starmer. “What was the condition she had?” said good journo Ferrari, venturing where most polite conversations don’t. It was Still’s disease, a rare condition “where your immune system attacks itself”, Starmer said. In the last years of her life, his mother couldn’t walk or speak, and had her leg amputated. “She’s never spoken to our children,” said Starmer, using the present tense. “As a teenager I spent a lot of time in high dependency units with my mum, watching the NHS saving her life.”
You may like Starmer or you may not, but it was heartening to hear a politician who was steady and honest, who gave straightforward answers and was across the issues that mattered. Plus, he didn’t appear to be using the media for its ego-boosting jollies and rabble-rousing opportunities. Amazing how refreshing that seems now.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:34 (three years ago) link
Not only does she highly praise KS.
Including praising his statement about the Colston statue.
She also literally calls Nick Ferrari a good journalist.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:36 (three years ago) link
That's less a review than a synopsis really.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:37 (three years ago) link
Take that Germany Kremlin, with your notorious lack of honesty, vagueness in answering, ignorance of vital issues and media vanity.
― nashwan, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:45 (three years ago) link
BBC scoop - NHS abandons centralised contact tracing app, moves to Apple/Google decentralised model— Rory Cellan-Jones (@ruskin147) June 18, 2020
Who reckons this was the plan all along? Allow masses of public money to be spaffed up the wall siphoned to Dom's mates, and then revert at a convenient moment.
― glumdalclitch, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:46 (three years ago) link
spaffed up the wall of course
― glumdalclitch, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:47 (three years ago) link
I see #grime4corbyn has found its analogue in Starmerism https://t.co/YB5e4SrvKT— Dan Hancox (@danhancox) June 18, 2020
lool!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 13:49 (three years ago) link
We will, aha, you see, all meet again - no, hear me out -
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:06 (three years ago) link
I suppose it's the sort of garbage you're expected to come out with but still *boak*
― Rapsputin (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:11 (three years ago) link
― glumdalclitch, Thursday, 18 June 2020 bookmarkflaglink
A Tory's mate is always getting hold of public funds. Surely the main takeaway is the government's inability to stand up a track and trace app, therefore making a 2nd lockdown more likely if the NHS is totally run down by winter.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:19 (three years ago) link
I don't think it's the plan, it's just a consequence of the standard operating model being to spaff the money you spend on anything to your pals and then move on. Covid's proving a real problem for this model because it's staggeringly obvious when you're fucking up, so you now also reluctantly, belatedly, have to attempt to do something which might actually work. Which you've forgotten how to do, so you also outsource that and then embarrass yourself.
― stet, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:23 (three years ago) link
It'd be interesting to see how much of this has been driven by data privacy issues. The Norwegian court just ruled their centralised system illegal this week.
― Scampo dei Miracoli (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link
Aside from the legality there's absolutely no chance of anyone downloading it if they can't assuage privacy concerns.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:28 (three years ago) link
Palantir are actual evil, when I found out they were involved in this there was no way I was going to use it
― stet, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:29 (three years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/18/man-rescued-by-uk-black-lives-matter-protester-is-ex-police-officer
― koogs, Thursday, 18 June 2020 14:44 (three years ago) link
He is described as a Millwall FC fan on the website of a local village club where he volunteers.
A fellow member of the club said Male was “a patriotic Brit, England through and through”.
― scampo simmonite (||||||||), Thursday, 18 June 2020 15:31 (three years ago) link
Michael Gove says NI>GB border controls in Boris Johnson's deal shouldn't be implemented as they will anger unionists https://t.co/ptxTZwz04T— Jon Stone (@joncstone) June 18, 2020
― scampos mentis (gyac), Thursday, 18 June 2020 15:40 (three years ago) link
do not waste this time
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 18 June 2020 15:54 (three years ago) link
some discussion of upcoming labour together postelection report, one interesting thing I saw which I don't think I've read elsewhere is they think Tories got 2m previous non-voters to vote for them in 19, ppl have commented that the tory vote didn't change much overall but may well have been lots of traffic in either direction cancelling each other out
― rumpy riser (ogmor), Thursday, 18 June 2020 16:41 (three years ago) link
they think Tories got 2m previous non-voters to vote for them in 19
must've been all those people under 25 door-knocking all over the country like in the videos we saw all over social media
oh wait
― nashwan, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:01 (three years ago) link
Thanks wreckers
The report doesn't criticise Corbyn personally but "the fact is he lost us a lot of votes"Disunity was a huge issue, with ChUK MPs defecting denting his ratings massively PV ultras will not like it, apparently, nor will those who want Corbyn to be held responsible10/10— Gabriel Pogrund (@Gabriel_Pogrund) June 18, 2020
― scampos mentis (gyac), Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:14 (three years ago) link
with ChUK MPs defecting denting his ratings massively
yet they couldn't keep their own voters
― nashwan, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link
when a brilliant MP like Joan Ryan walks from the Labour Party then questions have to be asked about the leader!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:19 (three years ago) link
if the leader can't command the respect of Gapesy then you might as well give up.
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:21 (three years ago) link
report will blame Corbyn, ignore 2017 and overemphasise the scale of defeat ... yawn.
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:32 (three years ago) link
Do you agree that Boris Johnson/Keir Starmer...Is best to negotiate with the EU:Johnson: 39% (% who agree)Starmer: 31%Is able to stand up for Britain's interest abroad:Johnson: 40%Starmer: 34%via @OpiniumResearch— Britain Elects (@britainelects) June 18, 2020
even when Starmer is having public thoughts of necrophilia with Vera Lynn, the gbp still prefer a Tory to him and he's not even had a concerted campaign of hate against him yet! Fucking two-time loser in the making here.
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:48 (three years ago) link
those are questions for headbanging cultists, not mild mannered legal beagles
― nashwan, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:56 (three years ago) link
The 2019 defeat taken in the context of the long term decline of post Blair Labour tells a different, or at least one a bit more complex than Corbyn's fault.
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:58 (three years ago) link
Argh it's raining on my phone and my posts are getting even shitter!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 17:59 (three years ago) link
If Starmer was a beagle Labour would be 20 pts ahead!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 18:02 (three years ago) link
That thread gyac linked to is worth reading in its entirety - it suggests the report does none of those things.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 June 2020 18:03 (three years ago) link
EXC: Here's an overview of Labour Together's inquiry into 2019 election defeat, overseen by MPs incl Ed Miliband, per sourceIt addresses threat posed by Boris Johnson, Labour's relationship with working class, what went wrong under Corbyn and long-term trends since Blair1/10— Gabriel Pogrund (@Gabriel_Pogrund) June 18, 2020
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 June 2020 18:04 (three years ago) link
I'll check it later because of rainy phone syndrome
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 18:05 (three years ago) link
was listening to a bbc report giving a very bland history of De Gaulle's wartime exile in Britain and his bbc speech to Vichy France, some bollox to do with Macron's visit. It didn't include all the mutual mistrust, questions of De Gaulle's legitimacy and the absolute murderous hatred between him and the British govt. It's almost like some things never really changed!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 19:29 (three years ago) link
Says biggest factors in election loss were Brexit ‘by a country mile’, Corbyn's unpopularity and too many policies.
Predictable enough. The last one is still the most infuriating in terms of audience rejection.
Labour lost 1.7m Leave voters and 1m Remain voters.
Bit surprised it wasn't the other way round here though.
Tories succeeded in turning out 2m more non-voters - mainly older white men, "leave minded", wanted to "Get Brexit Done" and/or stop Corbyn from being PM
I guess there was always the question of whether Brexit-voters could be bothered to turn up for another GE with just a little more persuasion and scare-mongering that it might not happen. I wouldn't have thought social media played any significant role here* and it all came through trad media and word of mouth in precipitous Labour seats. 2 fucking million though...
If they didn't hit the ceiling on that the big post-Brexit issue for the far right recruiters might be black people crossing into the UK by boat. Might not play so well up North but Farage is already well into this and will be PM in another ten years.
*but apparently Tory party destroyed Labour on Facebook - fair enough as Labour went after young new voters
― nashwan, Thursday, 18 June 2020 20:07 (three years ago) link
Did it mention his speech in Edinburgh with its fulsome praise for Scotland as France's oldest ally... against the English? He left out the last bit out but everyone knew what he meant.
― Rapsputin (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 June 2020 20:15 (three years ago) link
by the time De G relocated his govt in exile to Algiers, Churchill was trying get parliament to end all British support for him. Hence there was genuine gratitude to the BBC from the Fourth Republic, who commissioned some crappy painting to thank them for their invaluable propaganda services, but not so much goodwill towards the British establishment!
― calzino, Thursday, 18 June 2020 21:10 (three years ago) link
lol why the fuck does Question Time still exist?
― Ivan Scampo (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 June 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
What? I thought this was Friday!
― Rapsputin (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 June 2020 21:55 (three years ago) link
apparently not
― Ivan Scampo (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 June 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/radical-proposals-in-lib-dem-policy-review-suggest-shift-to-the-left
The Lib Dem review into why they should continue to bother seems to hint again at repositioning themselves somewhere between Labour and the Greens, which is probably good news for the Tories.
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Friday, 19 June 2020 09:09 (three years ago) link
Lib Dems really know how to leech off Labour voters, in this case the disaffected young Corbyn left wing.
Whether shouting "Plastic Bags!" will do anything to counteract remains to be seen.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 19 June 2020 09:24 (three years ago) link
innocent kids who don't know what a Lib Dem is almost as important a section of their support as Graun journalists
― Ivan Scampo (Noodle Vague), Friday, 19 June 2020 09:29 (three years ago) link
The LibDem brand is so fucked it's impossible to see this working except among people who don't remember the coalition. They're probably going to do something dumb like elect Ed Davey anyway.
― Matt DC, Friday, 19 June 2020 09:31 (three years ago) link