Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

i'm just accepting that life is ruined

xp: The Prime Minister not only took his kids out of school a month before closing schools for other people, he removed them from the state altogether.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb7htoJAK7g

the US is taking the path that other countries are starting to take - accepting that there will be a lot of deaths, normalizing it, and moving on

this overlooks the fact that with sufficient resources for testing and tracing and for inspecting businesses for compliance with announced public health restrictions, epidemiologists and public health officials know how to apply those resources to slow the spread of the virus considerably, thus reducing the numbers of deaths in a very large way. the stay-at-home orders were never intended as the primary tool for addressing the pandemic, but were only a stopgap to buy time for the correct infrastructure to be put in place.

many of those "other countries" Karl mentioned are far poorer than the USA, but amazingly the USA is still not producing nearly enough test kits, N95 masks, gloves and gowns to meet the amount required to follow the normal procedures for containing epidemics. the problem isn't solved. everyone just got tired of pointing at it and talking about it, and seeing little or no effective response.

for sure. i didn't overlook it, fwiw, i just didn't mention it. the US is in a very different situation than any other country (other than maybe Brazil?) due to the trump administration. it's clear, trump and his team have moved on, and they're done talking about it - at least until the second wave hits and they're forced to again. but if it was up to them, accepting a high death toll and looking the other way would have been the very first and only "strategy"

Not sure where to put this one. My former downstairs neighbor had the cops called on her because her disabled son wasn’t wearing a mask at a Boston Market

https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/amp/coronavirus-jenkintown-child-kicked-out-of-boston-market-incident-masks/6242854/

That's absolutely appalling, that makes me so angry ghgffhcsdfxvjg

Yeah my son is way too wiggly and sensory-troubled for long-term mask wearing. We were able to keep him mostly masked during a haircut yesterday but he was clearly miserable. I think "best effort" in higher-contact situations is as good as it'll get.

As I've mentioned, my wife works in an urgent care clinic. In absence of available testing, we had been allowing ourselves a hopeful fantasy that:

a.) she probably had already been exposed early on before all the ppe became standard and she likely brought it home and we were all just lucky asymptomatic carriers
b.) having it might possibly mean that you build up immunity and can't contract it again.

Well, she finally got a chance to take an antibody test last week and it just came back negative, so part a is out the fucking window.

fwiw I don't know a single person yet who thinks they could have had it that tested positive for antibodies. The couple next door are an ER doc and a nurse, and they both think they (and their kids) had it in February, but back then they couldn't get a test. They're scheduled for an antibody test in a couple of weeks, iirc, and they're both pretty confident they'll be positive - the doc even thinks he knows the patient that gave it to him - but I'm curious. I want to say I read some stat about how few people are actually testing positive for antibodies, which implies it's not the silent pervasive spreader some thought/hoped it would be. Certainly current spikes in cases and hospitalizations show that it's still got a long way to circulate.

every time I've gone to get tested the line was around the block, which on the one hand I suppose is better than there being nobody there, but since I consolidate errands into one day to minimize going out, it means I haven't gotten it done yet. (and even if I do, I still kind of suspect I had it in January.)

So...have libraries reopened in your counties and cities? Ours did for curbside delivery in early May (a lifesaver), and they opened their doors again last Monday.

My closest branch is the regional one a mile and a half away: an ugly late '70s structure with a huge atrium. An employee guards the door. You must wear a mask at all times (as you must in any interior space in Miami-Dade). Tables are set up as much as 10 feet apart. I went twice last week and counted no more than eight or nine people. Even the public computers, reduced from 20 to 10, only had three people using them. People using tables stuck to their laptops and didn't move an inch.

In other words, I felt comfortable to linger for about an hour to read and finish work. Now I wonder if I did the right thing.

Our libraries have yet to reopen, hoping it's soon. The day they shut down our office in mid-March, just before everything else got shutdown I made plans to stop in the next morning to stock up - unfortunately they made the decision to not open back up that same night. So I'm ready.

According to my mother, my brother and his wife have moved into the "this is all just the flu" camp and aren't taking any precautions at all. My sister-in-law started back up at her job, at a daycare center (which, to be fair, wasn't her idea) yet they still insist on visiting my mom and stepdad every weekend.

it's been two weeks since i attended a protest and... i think i'm fine?

might get tested later this week just to see but iirc the WHO itself is backing down on the asymptomatic carrier narrative

driving around this weekend, you'd swear everything was back to normal. farmer's markets are open. the annual garage sale event in our town is still on. our neighbor across the yard had a massive party with well over 40 people. nobody's wearing a mask at the grocery store. all while we've posted our highest # of confirmed cases. my wife is gonna be ordered back to work next month and I'll be alone with the kids. I feel like I'm going nuts. Why am I even bothering trying to be careful right now

Stats in Texas, and various other parts of the country, are worse now than they ever had been in the past 3 months. I do not think states are going to be able to continue encouraging re-opening for much longer. I expected one or two states will give up fairly quickly and reimpose stricter measures, and other states will then feel like they can follow suit. What's going on right now is very obviously not working.

Most things are open here. I expect, absent some catastrophe, I'll have the option to return to my office sometime in July.

Why am I even bothering trying to be careful right now

This is where I've spent a lot of time this weekend. Like, what's the point of the last three months, if everyone is just going to go back out and spread it just as recklessly as if we hadn't bothered at all? My state is still one of the best in terms of decreasing cases, but it's not going to matter when I keep seeing people taking off for vacations in other states.

Thirded.

Our library is opening for curbside only pretty soon. I think I saw they had a backlog of 10000 books to procure! But it's going to be a while before the building itself opens to the public. Illinois is being pretty conservative, which is to say, safe and smart. For example, I think we've hit Phase 4 benchmarks, but they are still enforcing a wait until the official day. My same doctor neighbor, by the way, told me this weekend that based on what he has seen in the ER, the city/state is doing great, and he's not worried about a big Covid return here as long as everyone continues to follow guidance. Which they seem to be.

Our farmer's market "opened," too, with significant restrictions on interaction. Spacing, crowd, and so on. I think you can order produce for pickup, though.

Katherine, re: testing here, I got tested for antibodies a few weeks ago, and it was so fast it was practically over before it began. Made an appointment the day before, had a five minute video consult, went in the next day, they scanned my insurance and then I went next door for the needle. The bloodwork part took literally 5 seconds, and I got my (negative) results 2 days later.

iirc the WHO itself is backing down on the asymptomatic carrier narrative

not true, this was bungled messaging which was quickly amplified by a million sources (WHO walked it back shortly thereafter)

re: what's the point if everyone around us is fucking up?

every day you can postpone getting it is another day for advances in treatment/vaccines. you might appreciate that if you end up getting a moderate to severe case, which often has very long detrimental and lasting effects

Just because a lot of people are acting like it doesn't matter anymore doesn't mean you have to give up on what you think are reasonable measures. I feel pretty strongly that these people are simply wrong and it's going to become very apparent quickly.

not true, this was bungled messaging which was quickly amplified by a million sources (WHO walked it back shortly thereafter)

― gnarled and turbid sinuses (Jon not Jon), Monday, June 15, 2020 8:20 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh good to know, glad we're in the dark as ever

it’s true that there are substantial doubts about how contagious you are if you don’t have - and never get - symptoms. there haven’t been any notable outbreaks in schools yet, for instance, despite many countries opening schools back up. the whole “kids are superspreaders” narrative is probably wrong for covid.

he's not worried about a big Covid return here as long as everyone continues to follow guidance. Which they seem to be.

Right, and this gives me hope, but then my wife mentioned that she saw SIX(!) different families we know from Chicago and the suburbs reporting on their vacations in Florida, Michigan and South Carolina. I just don't see that boding well for us. The virus doesn't calmly step aside at state borders.

Starting July 2, masks will be mandatory on public transit here

My city and country are reopening everything again. By the start of July things will be normal again. It’ll be summer and we’re the most touristed country in the world. My family and I will mostly keep sitting tight. This isn’t close to over.

Our neighbors across the street found a house with a pool to rent in Florida. They are driving to GA to spend the night at his sister's house, then hitting Florida the next day. I think they figured if it was work from home they can do that anywhere (true), and as far as exposure goes, their trip seems about as safe as staying here, tbh. I think there are degrees of vacationing.

The WHO fuck-up ... it was a totally sort of legal mistake that hinged on the subtle distinction between pre-symptomatic and asymptotic. That is, there are people who are pre-symptomatic and therefore asymptomatic who will eventually get symptoms, and there are people who are asymptomatic who will never get symptoms. If I recall the clarification correctly, the WHO said pre-symptomatic people are still a big source of spreading, but of course, how can you tell the different between pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic until you get symptoms? Or don't?

I personally won’t be budging for the next three months at least, except for possibly a visit to the bookstore if they decide to reopen to customers.

it’s true that there are substantial doubts about how contagious you are if you don’t have - and never get - symptom

yeah
it's that seeing into the future ('and never get') part that is tricky when you are the person with no symptoms walking down the street or the other person with no symptoms walking toward them

xpost what jic said

it really does seem like there are some important missing pieces with this virus. it does feel like the 'superspreader' narrative is accurate to some degree.

there haven’t been any notable outbreaks in schools yet, for instance, despite many countries opening schools back up.

yeah that's pretty interesting, I'd assume most of the kids who got it wouldn't show symptoms but the teachers would. our daycare had 5 (!) teachers test positive but afaik none of the kids or parents have shown any symptoms at all. the teacher who'd first tested positive about 2 weeks ago is now posting pics of herself out in public again on Facebook. it's infuriating.

Same as y'all basically although the community spread seems low where I am and, again, everyone in public is wearing masks at least at the few stores I go to. I might drive cross-country in August because I have a limited amt of time to do some family stuff that I've been delaying since Feb. But I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

In reasonable weather we just get together w small numbers of people outside with distancing, not going indoors, not hugging, etc. It's going to get super real when it gets cold again though. And I guess the whole South of the US is going to actually go through that sooner because aiui it's too HOT to be outdoors in a lot of places.

It's kind of remarkable how little we know. The same doc neighbor I keep referencing noted that some hypothesize it's not so much a respiratory illness as it is a vascular illness, which explains things like strokes in young people, "covid toe," weird rashes and stuff.

we should be locked down for another year

Or at least we should have made it through summer for sure.

This is a good dashboard imo https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/

Still a rough overview though: the WA epidemic at this point has at least two distinct regional characteristics, with Yakima and Eastern Washington trending worse and western Washington remaining ~stable or improving.

because aiui it's too HOT to be outdoors in a lot of places.

this isn't fun but it's not as difficult as it being too cold to go outside... pretty soon here in Texas it'll still be in the mid-90s at midnight, but once the sun sets you can sit around in the backyard or on a porch with a couple giant box fans and cold drinks and be fine.

I don’t doubt other large states with multiple population centers have similar situations

i’m strongly considering a long-haul flight to visit my parents.

1) i’ve had The Bug already and there are no documented cases of people getting it twice
2) any immunity i currently have will lessen over time
3) my parents aren’t getting on any planes until there’s a vaccine
4) if a second wave comes this autumn/winter a Christmas visit may be off the cards
5) if i don’t go now, and i don’t go at Christmas, when the hell am i going to see them

If I was in your situation I would be going pretty much anywhere I could think of.

weird rashes and stuff.
Over the weekend I discovered a weird rash around my knee. Put some topical cream on it I had from previous weird rash on arm and *crossed fingers*

mix a pobrecito!

driving around this weekend, you'd swear everything was back to normal. farmer's markets are open. the annual garage sale event in our town is still on. our neighbor across the yard had a massive party with well over 40 people. nobody's wearing a mask at the grocery store. all while we've posted our highest # of confirmed cases. my wife is gonna be ordered back to work next month and I'll be alone with the kids. I feel like I'm going nuts. Why am I even bothering trying to be careful right now

― frogbs, Monday, June 15, 2020 9:34 AM (one hour ago)

i have heard/read a variety of this message from friends all over the country; the details change but the feeling of "am I losing it?" is universal

meanwhile, in my area we still are required to wear masks indoors and i don't see any reason to stop wearing it when i pass people outside. my mask journey has evolved to the point where i have different ones for different tasks/reasons. like pairs of shoes. big sigh.

lots of stuff going on at work too and i don't plan to get into that here but NFI what is going on at that place

meanwhile, in my area we still are required to wear masks indoors and i don't see any reason to stop wearing it when i pass people outside. my mask journey has evolved to the point where i have different ones for different tasks/reasons. like pairs of shoes. big sigh.

same here. I'm trying to accessorize.

mix a pobrecito!
I prefer the Brazilian version, um pobrezinho. Contains cachaça.

still wearing mine. but so many people here consider it an affront. my buddy who works at the library says people actually accost them for WEARING masks.

yeah I absolutely get dirty looks for having one on

thankful that i've perceived zero judgment of mask-wearing in nyc