Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

more payoff when u think either President may not survive their second term

but in general, yes, Veep debates are low stakes

She'd probably destroy him in a debate but there are few things in American politics that matter less than a VP debate.

"I was really into this revanchist white nationalism thing the GOP had going on until someone who was going to have no actual power pwned it."

No one's arguing otherwise. xpost

debates in general, veep or Presidential, often have negligible effects. which is why Obama's bedshitting in the first one in 2012 only caused temporary panic,but Romney's "47%" gaffe did a lot more to hurt his chances in the end.

Aimless, I couldn't disagree more that "Harris's speaking style is pretty average, even if her content is far better. She hasn't taken the time to polish her delivery"

I would hazard that you are responding strongly to her message, more than to the nuances of her delivery. But I cannot expect everyone to agree with me on this.

Harris's speaking style is pretty average

Disagree totally--that's what first attracted me to her.

which is why Obama's bedshitting in the first one in 2012 only caused temporary panic

I'd have to check, but I don't know how widespread the panic was; Andrew Sullivan shouldered enough panic for 31 states himself.

xxp yes don't agree because it's horseshit

To be clear, I'm not speaking of Harris's rhetoric, how her speeches are constructed, but her delivery, the pauses, the emphasis, the tone of her voice as she brings her voice to the written words, her body language, her eye movements, her gestures, her facial expressions. Those are all part of oratory. She's OK at this, but I say from what I've seen, she's no master of the dramatics and dynamics of speechifying. She'd have done much better in the primaries if she were.

I like listening to Harris exchange meaningless banter in interviews. With all due respect Aimless, I don't think you need to explain to us what we're responding to. I just like the sound of her voice.

"but her delivery, the pauses, the emphasis, the tone of her voice as she brings her voice to the written words, her body language, her eye movements, her gestures, her facial expressions"

fuck off

the way she swims, the relative measurements of her skull... all wrong..

Arguing over whether a cop is a good speaker like a couple of K-pop fans on Twitter.

another bad opinion

ilx is full of them

"Kamala Harris is not a great public speaker" is a bad reason to get upset at someone.

I'll speak for myself here. Saying Harris is not a great public speaker is perfectly fine. Explaining to me that I don't really think she's a good speaker, I'm responding to something other than what I think I'm responding to, that's not the same thing.

Harris has a very voice. Kind of reedy in a really refined way.

*very nice

xxxp not upset, but amazed that you want to still insert your opinion here

Glad you all have taken elocutionary courses

If only this thread could run for President

it's not 35 years old yet...but it kinda seems like it?

I like Kamala Harris but iirc her primary debate performances were pretty disappointing. Maybe she'd do better in a 1:1 though

Debates were fine! Policy was meh.

I hope for Pence's sake the virus doesn't prevent an audience for the debate, he can't be alone in a TV studio with a woman

didn't we do this "has a nice voice"/"doesn't have a nice voice" whinging like literally a year ago in the AOC thread and talk about vocal technique bullshit then and it became a clusterfuck?

the answer is always yes

very nice voice, would listen again, A+

Explaining to me that I don't really think she's a good speaker, I'm responding to something other than what I think I'm responding to, that's not the same thing.

clemenza, if you look, I specifically said I was guessing at what you were responding to. saying I was explaining what you were responding to is simply to misread what I wrote.

Okay...but then you came back for a second go at it. Wouldn't it just be easier to accept that I like her voice because I like her voice?

She'd have done much better in the primaries if she were.

I'd be inclined to say the only moment she got anywhere during the primaries was her flare-up with Biden over busing, and that that was not just what she was saying but how effectively she said it.

If all anyone can extract from what I wrote about the many elements comprising the art of oratory is that it is means someone "has a nice voice" or "doesn't have a nice voice" then I give up. Think whatever you all want to think. I can't penetrate the carapace.

the only moment she got anywhere during the primaries was her flare-up with Biden over busing, and that that was not just what she was saying but how effectively she said it.

Right. I agree. I'll say that twice. I agree.

And what does it tell you when the "only moment she got anywhere" was a "flare up", and not the result of a sustained ability to connect deeply with her audience? If it were simply misogyny or racism that was operating to make her not connect like that consistently, then that moment would not have happened, because she didn't cease to be a woman of color in that moment.

I would say it didn't repeat, because she didn't know how to make it repeatable. Few politicians do. The extraordinary political speakers, like MLK Jr. or Obama, don't happen by accident. It is a craft and they understand it on a deep level.

But I've said all I intend to say on the subject. More than once.

misogyny or racism

Not sure where that came from--nothing I even hinted at.

I don't think she did well because a) her prosecutorial background didn't go over particularly well, b) (connected) she got nowhere with the large progressive wing of the party, and c) the rest of the party seemed to settle on--I'm not agreeing with this, no idea, no interest in arguing the point--Biden as the safest pick. Whatever. But I just don't see that her not winning had anything to do with shortcomings as a speaker.

Former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. told a group of black supporters on Thursday night that most Americans are good people who think the nation can be improved, but also declared that “there are probably anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of the people out there that are just not very good people.”

you can quibble with the numbers (it's more like 30%, at least) but this is kind of an astonishing thing to share with people, for a presidential candidate. not saying it's good or bad, just a marker of where we are, that a candidate can say this and it's true and no longer a big deal to acknowledge. that was not true even a year or so ago.

Hilary paved the way with the basket of deplorables comment. This may play better because he didn't explicitly link them to Trump.

He's not talking about Trump supporters necessarily -

BIDEN: Look if elected my view is that you will have address these issues straight on. And the words the president says matter. So when a president stands up and divides people all the time, you're going to get the worst of us to come, the worst in us to come out. So when a president constantly talks about equality without lecturing, talks about and has an administration that looks like the country and the rest it changes attitudes. And it's about the attitude of the country. Do we want out kids -- do we really think that this is as good as we can be as a nation? I don't think the vast majority of people think that. There are probably anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of the people out there that are just not very good people. But that's not who we are. The vast majority of people are decent. We have to appeal to that and we have to unite people.

You could interpret that as being about 'looters' as much as deplorable CHUDs.

#mayonnaisegolem

and he's just a simple country Mayonnaise Golem.

^ Wilco lyric

You could interpret that as being about 'looters' as much as deplorable CHUDs.

you could do anything if you really put your mind to it

Don’t tarnish the name of my people’s holy defender the Golem by using it for the goyest goy who ever goyed

and he's just a simple country Mayonnaise Golem.

Rejected SNL Phil Hartman sketch idea.

It's official - Diamond Joe 2020!

Former Vice President Joe Biden has clinched a majority of delegates to the Democratic convention, locking up the party’s presidential nomination, according to The Associated Press.

The AP now projects that Biden has won 1,993 delegates to the national convention, just over the magic number of 1,991 required to secure the nomination on the first ballot.

...

"It was an honor to compete alongside one of the most talented groups of candidates the Democratic party has ever fielded — and I am proud to say that we are going into this general election a united party," Biden said in a statement emailed to reporters shortly after the AP's declaration. "I am going to spend every day between now and November 3rd fighting to earn the votes of Americans all across this great country so that, together, we can win the battle for the soul of this nation, and make sure that as we rebuild our economy, everyone comes along."

one of the most talented groups of candidates the Democratic party has ever fielded

spittake

Which year was better

no martin o'malley this year

I have to admit I did miss the no-nonsense courage of Jim Webb, who knows how to fire a weapon.