Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

Thanks!

National Guard at 13th & Olive too, facing off against a single umbrella on the crosswalk

One of the US news podcasts I was listening to yesterday was talking about people at the protests handing out masks and hand sanitiser. So seemed to be at least trying to head in the right direction .
I have worried about the spread of covid too. Since a lot of the people attending protests will be exactly the people needed to vote and actively rebuild the country in the near future.
Obviously it is essential that something is done to correct this endemic wrong in the policing of society in the US. But I hope the price paid for attempting to correct things isn't going to be a great loss of life among the progressive element needed to further protest. Not sure how else things could be done though.

I see the protests in the US as pure desperation - die of COVID, die because a cop saw you and felt like pulling the trigger, what's the difference? - and think most people participating are doing it while aware of the danger, as opposed to the right-wing nuts who were protesting because they thought it wasn't a thing - but I'll confess I feel more reservations about solidarity demos in the UK/Europe. Difficult to put that into words without minimizing the oppression black people suffer under here, though.

Cops held off an extra few hours before using CS gas and explosives on the crowd last night - guessing their overtime allowance cuts off at midnight and they needed to get back to the suburbs?

Pretty rational to think that these tactics, which are illegal during actual war, might be creating additional risk for the populace during an airborne pandemic imo

I feel more reservations about solidarity demos in the UK/Europe.

I view these as analogous to non-Africans protesting South African apartheid. It's OK with me. I hope people take reasonable covid precautions and mass protest every day for months. Because 'no justice, no peace' is the only way I can see this ever improving.

went off for a test today, not worried but need to isolate for a couple of days

I view these as analogous to non-Africans protesting South African apartheid. It's OK with me.

My reservations aren't that I don't think people outside the US shouldn't protest US police brutality! Non-Africans protesting apartheid didn't happen during an epidemic.

Basically I feel like the protests in the US right now are a clear emergency situation where breaking isolation is justifiable. I'm not convinced that solidarity protests here fall under the same umbrella - there are many causes that should have protests happen under ordinary circumstances, but obviously that's not practicable.

The counter-argument to that, however, would be that black people in the UK and Europe may feel that the same logic of desperation holds true here, which is probably true. As I said, I'm conflicted.

The Préfecture de Police de Paris did not approve the Adama Traoré manifestation on Tuesday, because of the health crisis, but 20,000 people manifested anyway at the tribunal de Paris. As you may know, Adama Traoré was killed by the police in 2016 as a result of their restraining him by a method like that used by the Minneapolis police to restrain George Floyd. He was a resident of a suburb north of Paris and tried to escape the police during an identity check related to suspicion of his brother's involvement with crime, because, though a French citizen, he happened not to have his identity card with him at the moment. After being caught by the police, they violently restrained him, and in the car as they drove him to the station, he said "I can't breathe", then died. Traoré was of Malian descent and as such his death continues to signal to our ethnic minority population that they must live in fear of police murder. I think they rightly feel desperate that nothing has changed here since 2016: indeed, the official autopsies continue to attest that he died of a preexisting heart condition triggered by his running away, rather than as a result of his having been violently restrained. So I think French protesters with reason judge the need to mobilize at this moment, in solidarity and alignment with the movement in the USA, worth the risk of contracting and spreading the virus.

Or, alternately, from our version of the Onion: La France va partager avec la police américaine son expertise en matière de classement en affaires sans suite.

...aren't that I don't think people outside the US shouldn't...

This is a work of art

(Jk, I understood what you meant.)

i do feel like yeah these protests are important. to my kids i say "recognize that the risks you are taking regarding public health are not only YOUR risks." endemics are public events with public costs. you cannot except your responsibility and culpability out of the outcomes. if that doesn't add to your level of stress-- it should.

but as well, if in trying to reduce covid one does NOT join a protest which shows a reasonable chance of effecting change, that decision should add to your stress level as well.

which all sounds like a bunch of bullshit nonsense, especially if i were now 19 y/o, and just wanted justice and wellness generally, and had been cooped up for soooo long.

ha in trying to figure a strategy for "total wellness and justice," i decided maybe people should protest as much as they want, but otherwise be quarantined from everything else. protesters would just be like, a big covid-exposed task force that gets food drops and supplies between street deployments.

it's on some "the efficient frontier of social activism" level shit.

My Georgian friend made her 17-year-old daughter stay home since they are isolating with granddad, who is staying with them because he hasn’t been able to get a flight back to Tblisi. But she told her girl (the more materialistic/square of her two daughters) she was impressed that she wanted to go at all.

Glancing at the requirements for a lot of restaurants "opening up," they seem like such an awkward pain in the ass that I don't see why I would want to bother. A favorite local place actually has a "Covid-19 and Outdoor Dining" heading, right next to the menu and reservations and so on, and here's what that gets you:

1) Parties are limited to 6 people.

2) Credit cards only, no cash accepted.

3) If you are feeling ill or experiencing any COVID symptoms, please do not dine on the patio but instead use our curbside takeout or delivery options.

4) MASKS MUST BE WORN ANYTIME GUESTS ARE NOT EATING OR DRINKING WHILE ON THE PREMISES.

5) Social distancing is required at all times. Please maintain a 6-ft. distance from other guests not in your party,

6) Guests may only enter the building to use the restroom. MASKS ARE REQUIRED TO USE THE RESTROOMS. NO EXCEPTIONS.

7) Hand sanitizer is available for use for guests at the host stand.

8) Enjoy yourself & stay awhile, but please be considerate of others who may be waiting for a spot. With limited seating, we want to ensure we can serve as many guests as possible!

9) At this time, we are not accepting reservations for the patio. All seating will be on a first-come, first-served basis, with the ability to put your name on the waitlist once arrived. Per state regulations, we cannot allow guests waiting to be seated to wait inside of the building or to congregate in a waiting area– all guests must wait in their cars until called for their table.

10) Outdoor seating is dependent on weather permitting. If inclement weather is in the forecast, we will not open the patio for seating. If inclement weather unexpectedly begins when guests are seated, all tables will need to immediately cash out and leave the premises.

All totally reasonable, all totally responsible, but nothing I want to deal with, not least because the problem, as always, is other people. My daughter went to Culver's to celebrate the last day of "school." She said they were limiting people inside and masks were required, but she saw couples where one had a mask on and one didn't, and there were people waiting close together by the door in various states of masks as well. But what is your average fast food joint supposed to do to enforce if a huge number of people aren't adhering to guidelines? Constantly stand by the door and yell like the TSA in airports? Kick out every third person? Start shit with some lunatic who needs their jumbo soda?

From the guide I posted, this is perhaps the biggest problem: " If you are feeling ill or experiencing any COVID symptoms ..." First of all, not everyone (or even most) have a clue if they have it, and two, even if they did, you're trusting them to stay home.

Anyway, I have a feeling we'll get a vaccine before they truly have a grasp on this virus, what it does, and how it does it, and until they know those things we're really just throwing random shit at the problem to see what happens.

Just popped out to the shops. Apart from the fact that you have to queue, it doesn't that look that different to the way it would have a year ago. As for facemasks, I was about to say maybe 5% are wearing them, but that's 1 in 20 and it's definitely less than that.

i feel like i've been seeing more people in masks or face coverings in the supermarket over the last couple of weeks but yeah if it's any more than 1 in 20 i'd be very surprised

Masks are still the norm here. On the other hand I watched a man outside my window shit this morning.

not really sure how representative this is but the rally I was at yesterday had people fairly spaced apart, depending on where you stood you could easily have an arms-outstretched radius. only saw one person out of several hundred without a mask of some sort (I had two or three N95 masks I hadn't worn because I was "saving them in case I really needed them"; did not expect the "really need them" occasion to be this)

The UK seems to be uniquely weird when it comes to not wearing facemasks.

Wow yeah. Do people just not...believe that it works? What's the resistance?

I think the government saying they was no benefit to be wearing them probably has something to do with it - I should say governments, because the Scottish goverment said the same. I think that was largely to ensure whatever masks were available went to NHS and essential workers.

It's a bit and chicken and egg, if you're out and about and nobody's wearing masks you're less likely to think, "You know what, I need to wear a mask".

xp That happened here too but once the messaging changed, at least from where I'm at, the behavior changed. Everybody was wearing masks last time I was at the store or out in public (I don't go out much). Businesses are re-opening but only with the requirement of masking.

The message never changed.

From next Monday you have wear a mask when you use public transport - that's only in England though - but that's the only time that I know of where wearing a mask has been spoken of as something people have to do. And that's in the middle of June.

afaict the government never gave advice about masks, no one on tv wears them, etc. and there's still a bunch of people who heard the "we need them all for PPE" advice a couple of months back and think they're doing the right thing by not even owning a mask.

there was amazing footage on the UK brexit thread of hundreds of people laying out on clapham common (rough demographic equivalent to fort greene park but imagine it way busier than fort greene ever gets) and there was not one mask.

Clapham Common this afternoon pic.twitter.com/2V17VfKAnA

— Jamie Macwhirter (@jamiemacwhirter) May 30, 2020

does anyone know what the N95 situation is in the US? i have a diy mask and it looks awesome but i am so tired of my glasses fogging up. i have tried every remedy, nothing works. i think i am an extreme nostril breather - i commonly knock lightweight items off of tabletops, just by sitting near them. only a professional mask can contain my natural nasal air flow.

oops, i got sidetracked on my nasal flow. what i meant to ask about is whether it's ok to try to obtain a N95 now (which i assume will be better quality and help with my glasses) or if medical professionals are still in need.

quite a few of the tailored cloth masks you can find for sale on social media or e-commerce sites have nose bridge things built in for that purpose, might be time to shell out ten or twenty bucks

i think the official word is still to steer clear of n95 masks and prefer lowest-tier 'medical masks' or cloth ones

KM have you tried putting a Kleenex tissue inside the mask to absorb the moisture? That worked for me.

Even with those built in nose bridge cloth masks my glasses constantly fog up. I've found nothing works.

The message never changed.

― Subverted by buggery (Tom D.), Monday, 8 June 2020 17:31 (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Scottish govt advised mask wearing in shops and indoor workplaces weeks ago. No one really bothered.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/glasses-fog-wearing-mask-coronavirus.html

No idea if this works or not but a colleague (whose wife is a nurse) passed on a tip to put shaving foam on your lenses then wipe it off - it forms some sort of film that prevents your glasses steaming up.
Another colleague is a scuba diver and says he does the same thing when diving but with washing up liquid to prevent his mask steaming up.

Tried all of those, no dice. Still fog up. Wiping soapy water does help a little bit, but then I'm looking through soap smears constantly instead of fog roughly 60% of the time. But I found if you wipe it (or shaving cream!) off too well, it doesn't stop the fog.

thanks everyone. caek, that exact article was my starting point a few months ago. it seems very sensible and i'm sure those techniques work for most people, but they barely make a difference with me. in addition to mye extreme nasal flow, i also have a big ass bent bridge on my nose (missed a baseball self-thrown pop fly as a kid once) that complicates things.

oh god. i'm going to become the bubble boy, aren't i

Scottish govt advised mask wearing in shops and indoor workplaces weeks ago. No one really bothered.

Left it too late.

Follow-up to Josh's restaurant post above: the reopening rules in Toronto.

http://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2020/06/restaurants-rules-reopen-toronto/

So, I was at a not too-crowded protest a little over a week ago, and again at the much larger and more crowded one in downtown Philly this past weekend. I wasn't too worried about being exposed to COVID at the previous one, now I am being diligent about staying home and trying to get tested.

However, I've noticed today that my resting heart rate has been unusually high, like it won't go any lower than 85-90. And if I stand up quickly it shoots up to over 100 and I even feel a little short of breath. Sometimes that's just a symptom of anxiety for me (and these have been anxiety-inducing times). I don't feel panicky right now though, just mildly anxious that this is a sign of the 'vid.

The UK seems to be uniquely weird when it comes to not wearing facemasks.

Facemasks are a pretty rare sight here in Norway. OTOH it appears that the early and broad closedown measures, which appear to have seen a good level of compliance, worked out well, and that the easing up of the last few weeks haven't yet resulted in a resurgence of cases or deaths (which may of course still materialize). Of course, no place in Norway, even our cities, are anywhere near as densely populated as major world metropolises, which surely helps.

I'm returning home tonight after 7 weeks at the folks. my dad is mostly recovered.

no more having to worry about getting dad sick just cos I went to Publix

You have done the Lord's work, Neanderthal. Take a rest.

FWIW I used to wear a real N95 mask and now wear a cloth mask, and the N95 mask was better at not fogging up my glasses, but it was overall less comfortable, since tighter fitting.

i want a face modification to make my face adhere with the mask so no air escapes upward. i will pay good money for this

I wear disposable masks (not N95) that have a wire that I can press fit over my nose, that works pretty well.

the only thing with the nose bridges is that they really irritate the top of my nose after about half an hour

my tightest/safest mask makes me sweat and gives me a runny nose. It is hard to breath through it when I'm walking up hills in SF. I have to take the filters out and wash it frequently. I have decided it is to be reserved for grocery store visits. I will wear my looser more comfortable masks when I'm just outside for a walk

I'm trying a wisp cpap nose cushion inside my fabric mask - silicone seal against your face, nose exhaust goes straight out but could also put a 90 deg down elbow there. We'll see how it goes.

FWIW I used to wear a real N95 mask and now wear a cloth mask, and the N95 mask was better at not fogging up my glasses, but it was overall less comfortable, since tighter fitting.

― o. nate, Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:53 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

My in-laws found a stash of n95s in their attic and passed some off to us. I tried one for a day but it fit like this.

https://i.gifer.com/9DB9.gif